The Resist System Balance Thread

[Lasher]

So all or nothing nuke? no partials?

You graph makes it too easy to achieve resists for the most common stats mr,cr, and fr.

I personally like it because i will be playing a healer so doesnt afffect me as much as other casters.

As a druid with 2 pieces of raiding gear, verm bracers along with other soloable or 1 groupable items my mock set up gets me these resists self buffed

126mr( 141 with grm), 120 fr, 114cr. I can switch out tcrown for a frog crown if i konw im fighting someone using less mr nukes

Thats just druid so not sure how othe classes will fair. Like i said i like it. I know comfortably i wont be get nuked much. A sham and an ench will need to debuff me and keep those debuffs on me, im not going to let it be easy for malo line to stay on me. Tash will be harder to keep off since its so fast to cast and relative low mana.


The graph is "ok" while people are lvling from 1-50 and gearing up. Once people get geared up with just a few pieces of gear you will see a lot of resists.

So yeah, i would play with tht resist system

[Knuckle]

I think I could shit out a better graph than that, here is my totally kickass partial resist system i suggested on vztz:

White Mage knuckle w/ spell resist system

White Mage knuckle here with tomes of power from the past, here was my suggested partial resist system, with enough checks and balances to make any player happy:



http://emu.pwned.com/showthread.php?...ht=shaman+epic

08-06-2009

The best thing you can do with the spell system is add a ballpark number to each resist range, never give someone a flat percent; for a certain resist.

0-50 5-25% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 85% chance for partial resist.
Partial will do 50-95% damage.

51-100 25-35% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially 75% chance for partial resist. Partial will do 45-90% damage.

101-140 36-45% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 65% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 40-90% damage.

141-180 46-60% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially 50% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 35-85% damage.

181-240 61-80% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 45% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 25-85% damage.

241-300 68-80% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 40% chance for a partial resist. Partial will deal 20-75% damage.


A player has 76 fire resist and an opponent casts Starfire on them.

51-100 25-35% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially

a /random 100 yields 68.
The player either fully or partially resists the spell.

85% chance for partial resist. The player has a check for Full or Partial resist.

The roll comes up /random yields 39.
The player had to roll an 86 to get a full resist, since the roll was 39, now the player has a check to see what % of damage he takes.

At the 50-100 resist check, a player takes 45-90% damage. So a /random 45 90 takes place.

The roll comes up /random yields 80.

The player takes a 20% reduction in damage from the starfire.


The only difference between DoT and root effects in this case, is I argue that DoT and Root effects durations should be effected equally in these situations, there is no reason why DoT should be immune to reduction in damage, so the most reasonable solution is to make any % reduction from a partial resist reduce the number of ticks, or duration of the DoT.

A player has 110 poison resist, a shaman casts Bane of Nife on him.

101-140 36-45% chance to resist a spell fully or partially.

The players resist check /random yields 85.

The player succeeded his first check, the spell will not do it's full damage, if it does any at all, a second check is now made to see if the player fully resists Bane of Nife, or if it's duration is reduced.

The players second resist check is a 55.
65% chance for a partial resist at 100-140. Therefore the spell's DoT duration is reduced.

Now it is time to see how much the DoTs duration is reduced.
Partial resist will do 40-90% damage or duration. In this case the player partially resist bane of nife.

A third resist check is now made, yielding a 75.

Bane of Nife will last 75% of its normal duration. If it normally ticked 12 times in pvp, it will only last 9 ticks in this situation.


These two examples show how this system would work, the rule with DoTs apply to Roots. Anyway that's my 2 cents on a new resist system, it never makes a player immune but grants a very generous partial resist system, and prevents classes such as mages from being locked out from landing a spell.

I obviously would not make public to the playerbase what the actual resist level values are, since that would encourage players to make the 'minimum' in one resist and start stacking others, better to keep them in the dark.

If a player knew a resist check range was 101-140, he might consider making it just enough to hit 101 and stack another resist. Keep it hidden from the player and let him learn a balance through trial and error.

This is all I will ever put into a resist system idea, cheers.

Spells that are unresistable like the insect line of druid dots would not be effected by this system, same as lures.

Graph pic inc

[Knuckle]

Originally Posted by Knuckle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think I could shit out a better graph than that, here is my totally kickass partial resist system i suggested on vztz:

White Mage knuckle w/ spell resist system

White Mage knuckle here with tomes of power from the past, here was my suggested partial resist system, with enough checks and balances to make any player happy:



http://emu.pwned.com/showthread.php?...ht=shaman+epic

08-06-2009

The best thing you can do with the spell system is add a ballpark number to each resist range, never give someone a flat percent; for a certain resist.

0-50 5-25% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 85% chance for partial resist.
Partial will do 50-95% damage.

51-100 25-35% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially 75% chance for partial resist. Partial will do 45-90% damage.

101-140 36-45% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 65% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 40-90% damage.

141-180 46-60% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially 50% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 35-85% damage.

181-240 61-80% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 45% chance for a partial resist. Partial will do 25-85% damage.

241-300 68-80% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially. 40% chance for a partial resist. Partial will deal 20-75% damage.


A player has 76 fire resist and an opponent casts Starfire on them.

51-100 25-35% chance to resist a spell fully OR partially

a /random 100 yields 68.
The player either fully or partially resists the spell.

85% chance for partial resist. The player has a check for Full or Partial resist.

The roll comes up /random yields 39.
The player had to roll an 86 to get a full resist, since the roll was 39, now the player has a check to see what % of damage he takes.

At the 50-100 resist check, a player takes 45-90% damage. So a /random 45 90 takes place.

The roll comes up /random yields 80.

The player takes a 20% reduction in damage from the starfire.


The only difference between DoT and root effects in this case, is I argue that DoT and Root effects durations should be effected equally in these situations, there is no reason why DoT should be immune to reduction in damage, so the most reasonable solution is to make any % reduction from a partial resist reduce the number of ticks, or duration of the DoT.

A player has 110 poison resist, a shaman casts Bane of Nife on him.

101-140 36-45% chance to resist a spell fully or partially.

The players resist check /random yields 85.

The player succeeded his first check, the spell will not do it's full damage, if it does any at all, a second check is now made to see if the player fully resists Bane of Nife, or if it's duration is reduced.

The players second resist check is a 55.
65% chance for a partial resist at 100-140. Therefore the spell's DoT duration is reduced.

Now it is time to see how much the DoTs duration is reduced.
Partial resist will do 40-90% damage or duration. In this case the player partially resist bane of nife.

A third resist check is now made, yielding a 75.

Bane of Nife will last 75% of its normal duration. If it normally ticked 12 times in pvp, it will only last 9 ticks in this situation.


These two examples show how this system would work, the rule with DoTs apply to Roots. Anyway that's my 2 cents on a new resist system, it never makes a player immune but grants a very generous partial resist system, and prevents classes such as mages from being locked out from landing a spell.

I obviously would not make public to the playerbase what the actual resist level values are, since that would encourage players to make the 'minimum' in one resist and start stacking others, better to keep them in the dark.

If a player knew a resist check range was 101-140, he might consider making it just enough to hit 101 and stack another resist. Keep it hidden from the player and let him learn a balance through trial and error.

This is all I will ever put into a resist system idea, cheers.

Spells that are unresistable like the insect line of druid dots would not be effected by this system, same as lures.

Graph pic inc

/\/\/\/\/\

[Macken]

You need to give up on creating your melee paradise.

Casters need help not nerfing.

Any nerf to casters is a real bad idea. Why do you want to discourage people from picking a class that already is too tough to play anyway? I'm sorry that you can't figure out how to win vs. root, stun, etc... but the rest of us aren't having trouble.

Wizards need their stuns, so stop proposing nerfs to an already weak class.

There is no los check at end of casting. Do you want everyone to be melee dude? have you even thought past your butt hurt feelings?

Game easier for wehrmacht = failed server for everyone else.

[Macken]

also, your graph is horribly wrong.

At the end it should droop like your penis. It never reaches 100%. Everyone knows this. It isn't like you are going to fool everyone. We have all played as much or more than you. Who exactly do you think you are talking to or trying to fool?

[Abysis]

Anything that helps casters, I vote no.

Unless we want to ban melee's right now

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Lasher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So all or nothing nuke? no partials?

You're getting too far ahead here. You first have to implement when full resists occur then do some arena testing. Then you adjust how aggressive you want your partial damage modifiers from there. If you test it and think casters would be underpowered with any partial damage modifier thrown in the mix, then sure, leave it at full or nothing. If they do too much damage, then set an aggressive partial modifier.

We already have PvP spell damage reduction so it's just something you have to test to see what's balanced.

Originally Posted by Lasher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You graph makes it too easy to achieve resists for the most common stats mr,cr, and fr.

It's the same resist curve for every resist stat. Seeing as how malo, mala, and tash spells nullify any resist buffs someone has as well as debuffing them, it's easy as shit to nuke people. Run the numbers yourself.

If your character had 120FR and +55FR in buffs from a druid for a total of 175FR, getting malo'd would bring you down to 75FR. If you were then nuked by a cleric (with -25resist mod on their nuke), you would resist his spells 25% of the time. You would resist wizard draughts 0% of the time.

Originally Posted by Lasher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know comfortably i wont be get nuked much.

That's where you're wrong. Look at my above example. If you get debuffed and don't get it off, you're gonna get roasted. It's not that easy to dispell yourself in mass PvP with a bunch of melees running around plus the -50 resist mod stuns from other casters too. Some people will just keep fighting, others will try to run and hide till they get it off. Even in 1vs1, you're not guaranteed to get it off fast due to stuns to interrupt you.

Originally Posted by Lasher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The graph is "ok" while people are lvling from 1-50 and gearing up. Once people get geared up with just a few pieces of gear you will see a lot of resists.

How is it just "ok"? Even if you had 160FR completely unbuffed (who has that during kunark?), one malo takes you to 115FR (also nullifying whatever resist buffs you had too), then all base nukes are -25mod to lower it even further to 90FR. You would fully resist standard nukes 70% of the time and resist draughts 45% of the time. If you manage to get one resist that high unbuffed, you probably gimped HP, AC, and every other resist. I don't see anything needing to be changed till possibly endgame Velious when large resist items start to appear.

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You need to give up on creating your melee paradise.

Casters need help not nerfing.

Here comes the inevitable Macken whine posts. All the stuff I posted is an enormous bonus to casters in comparison to EQ live. Don't compare what I posted to the delusional world of TZVZ where whirl till you hurl works in PvP because this server isn't TZVZ. If you can't even come up with a resist alternative yourself, you have no right to whine either.

You also tried to claim "There is no LOS check at end of casting". Once again, this isn't the TZVZ server that nobody wants to play on where 6 mages port into a dungeon, invis to your camp spot, nuke everyone to death in 3 seconds, then gate out. I was in the guild that did that all day for god's sake. Caster's aren't supposed to dominate outdoors and inside dungeons at the same time. I don't know anyone stupid enough except you to try and claim wizard stuns should last the full 8 second duration either while also hitting for 750 damage.

Originally Posted by Lasher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also dont change the game making stuns shorter negates there use dont try to rewrite eq just balance it

Stuns landed 0% of the time on EQ live PvP servers. Having them land at all is an upgrade, not a nerf. If you're some kind of little kid that's only played TZVZ and doesn't know this, don't bother posting in a thread discussing resists for an "EQ Emulator" server. You were also dumb enough to mention "Shawl of protection" like everyone on the server has them when only like 1% or less will.

For the 2nd time, if you're too dumb to even come up with your own resist system to post, don't cry like a girl to people that do post one.

[Macken]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seeing as how malo, mala, and tash spells nullify any resist buffs someone has as well as debuffing them, it's easy as shit to nuke people.


Even in 1vs1,


You would fully resist standard nukes 70% of the time and resist draughts 45% of the time. If you manage to get one stat that high unbuffed, you probably gimped HP, AC, and every other resist.
.

So you are giving malo, mala and tash to casters now 1 vs 1?

and of course to keep it balanced you are going to make casters able to resist melee damage 70% of the time and disciplines 45% of the time?

[Macken]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.it's easy as shit to nuke people.

At some point, even a moron realizes that he's dropping clues.

If you don't want us to realize you are moronic, then you should probably just stick to things you can prove which you havn't made up, while simultaneously trying to assert you have any experience at playing eq at all.

I can tell from that one statement:

1. you have never played eq past beginner mode.
2. You have never played a caster.
3. You think everyone is an idiot.
4. you don't realize that everyone knows you are moronic.
5. You have played so little, with such little experience, that you never figured out it's not easy as shit to nuke melees--resists or not.

[Knuckle]

I had to LOL hard at wehrmacht thinking a bard is ever going to be phased by malo or mala, their resists with raid gear and twisting the MR song with the psalm of whatever is ridiculous. We definitely had some 400+ mr warriors on VS fights.