LoS member posts about raiding in Jan 2002

[stront]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the idea of simulated patch day. Could have the server come down for 6 hours once a weeks so we can do our laundry, eat a proper meal and get uninterrupted sleep for a few hours.

The current system of not washing clothes for months at a time is unhygienic and unclassic tbh.

^^

[stormlord]

Here's the LoS link from Internet Archive--there's just 1 save:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090608...ite/arc35.html

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

All that Tigole Bitties ancient post shows us, is that end game content has always been the problem in eq, and any mmo. eq2 tried to at least put a halt to the headaches by instancing with lockouts but that was a blow to the competitive aspect of the game.

There is no solution to the end game problem, except one thing that has never been tried: varying what actually happens in the end game zones. Figure out a rubric of difficulty range, and have it so that you never know what abilities end mobs will have or do, etc. After a wipe or aggro reset, the abilities also reset. So you never know what you will get.

This would have been a better solution than instancing, which was the lazy way out. The solution to decongesting the end game is to increase the likelihood of even the best guild wiping as the norm.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Figure out a rubric of difficulty range, and have it so that you never know what abilities end mobs will have or do, etc. After a wipe or aggro reset, the abilities also reset. So you never know what you will get.

This would have been a better solution than instancing, which was the lazy way out. The solution to decongesting the end game is to increase the likelihood of even the best guild wiping as the norm.

I think this is a great solution to congestion and stagnant, boring, same old same old fights! Damn this idea is brilliant.

More than one guild get get to the encounter, and even if one got FTE, the chance they might fail would be present leaving the opportunity for the other guild(s) there to try for the raid mob.

Also, those who do not get FTE could watch and perhaps understand what the mob is doing fight-wise, so not having FTE initially could benefit the other guilds who failed to get FTE.

Another variation of this could be to simply have the mobs randomly spawn in different locations so when you went to point A, mob _003495 wasn't always there. That could add some problems to the encounter if guilds didn't automatically know what to prepare for every time. Obviously, the raid mobs would have to consist of spawn variations for that zone, but maybe that could add some spontaneity to high end raid encounters.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All that Tigole Bitties ancient post shows us, is that end game content has always been the problem in eq, and any mmo. eq2 tried to at least put a halt to the headaches by instancing with lockouts but that was a blow to the competitive aspect of the game.

There is no solution to the end game problem, except one thing that has never been tried: varying what actually happens in the end game zones. Figure out a rubric of difficulty range, and have it so that you never know what abilities end mobs will have or do, etc. After a wipe or aggro reset, the abilities also reset. So you never know what you will get.

This would have been a better solution than instancing, which was the lazy way out. The solution to decongesting the end game is to increase the likelihood of even the best guild wiping as the norm.

Too hard to implement. And you don't think players would get more frustrated?

The idea is interesting but have you ever raided? Wiping is normal when you're learning a raid. You can't learn if it's resetting its abilities or behaviour after every wipe. I don't think that's work.

What you seem to be doing is injecting more luck or randomness into the fight to equalize the playing field. By randomizing abilities, those who've learned them aren't benefited. This is less rewarding.

How do you figure that's the only solution? Never say never.

[shuklak]

The community is very real on Agnarr. You can still be a sick obviously but people know they can bump into you again.

I was in a pug the other day and someone in the zone needed a rez who died near us in guk. Our cleric refused just because the other guy was tagged in faceless.

Instances and pick zones would be a boon to p99 imo and actually help the community become healthier.

[Jimjam]

Agnarr has its own congestion problems though.

Just as P99 is saturated with items from it's huge periods of velious and kunark, Agnarr is saturated with loot from the top dungeons there, especially as there are so many instances of each desirable zone.

Skull-shaped barbutes for example barely sell to players for more than vendors give, about 60pp. On p99 they go for 5 times that!

[Alanus]

I'd like to see them add the ring of vulak event to TOV after Vulak dies

[khanable]

my questing style is better than ur questing style

[stormlord]

I'll supply some thoughts of my own now.

First, maybe raids shouldn't be something you do all the time? Tigole's complaint was there're not enough raids for the population's consumption. We all know most progression games have an end. It's a soft or a hard cap--sometimes a hybrid. Hard caps end immediately, whereas soft give decreasing returns. It's rare to see a soft cap go on forever equitably--so enjoyment falls. After you've acquired most group-based rewards and maybe a few raid rewards, progression in Everquest hits a soft cap. It continues, but returns diminish eventually to zero--a hard cap. So Everquest is a hybrid. Instead of calling it the "long end," Tigole wants it to be compressed.

If raid content is going to be consumed at equal amounts to grouping, then there're a few things we must accept. The first is you should be able to raid as much as you're able to. This is true with grouping and there's no reason it shouldn't be with raiding. This means spawn timers have to fall dramatically. Not days, but hours. OR it means more raid content. Second it means more players will be raid equipped earlier. Like a dammed river, if you remove the dam the water will rush past. Raid items will flood players. Third, the soft cap existing prior will now be shorter. Whereas b4 they might be playing with the soft cap for 5 years, now it might only be 1. It'll start later in raid progression, after they've acquired several of the best items.

This would effectively shorten the duration of Everquest progression. Without the several years of soft cap raiding progression, years will be removed from the progression of a character. This doesn't mean players won't login anymore after hitting hard cap, but it means there'll be 0 benefit for their character.

In reality, you might play forever trying to get that one single item to hit the hard cap. Some items are rare. But that's beside the point. Whether you're staying logged out for 5 days waiting for the next raid, or playing through 6 raids in 5 days and failing to get an item because you only have 1 slot to improve, they're both the same progression-wise. You WILL hit this end eventually.