Rules Clarification Request

[Cylock]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My personal opinion is that people are being a bit rough on Cylock. Up until this week he had a chill job on Red, hanging out with Apex and people handing out cookies and probably only needing to deal with small issues like OOC abuse and the occasional berg out. Now suddenly there is mass pvp with all the problems it presents and he is forced to make rulings on the spot. I sympathize with him and feel confident that he cares deeply about making Red99 an attractive place to play. What would help greatly for all parties involved, both staff and players, are clear stickied rules that will help alleviate many of the "off the cuff rulings" that we have dealt with in the past. That way we can help plan our PvP tactics accordingly, without fear of possibly being suspended.

Thanks!

You are correct sir, and right now there is a plan in the works for a meeting with all guild leaders on red. To avoid any type of issues in the future.

My personal opinion on the matter. Red has not had much "Consistent GM presence" lately and the players are used to doing whatever they want. Now it does have that, and players are flipping out that rules are enforced.

In closing, my #1 concern is the health of Red99 and my #1 goal is increasing the server population. Just be patient and remember I am here for YOU guys.

[shokar]

Originally Posted by Cylock [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are correct sir, and right now there is a plan in the works for a meeting with all guild leaders on red. To avoid any type of issues in the future.

My personal opinion on the matter. Red has not had much "Consistent GM presence" lately and the players are used to doing whatever they want. Now it does have that, and players are flipping out that rules are enforced.

In closing, my #1 concern is the health of Red99 and my #1 goal is increasing the server population. Just be patient and remember I am here for YOU guys.

Enforce the rules, but handing out suspensions if so much as a snow bunny is aggrod during pvp combat is 🤔. Mobs exist in Everquest, and most of them scowl.

[Retticus]

Originally Posted by shokar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enforce the rules, but handing out suspensions if so much as a snow bunny is aggrod during pvp combat is ��. Mobs exist in Everquest, and most of them scowl.

Another agreement.

Cylock, pvping in EverQuest means mobs are likely to be involved. Either the person you are fighting has agro or agro is acquired in the midst of PvP. Velious amplifies this because of the faction systems.

Also in the example of our PvP night in tov, Apex chose to park themselves at the zoneout, they cannot cry train when mobs are agroed enroute. They have a zone out to walk through.

Additionally, to your comments about an in range player casting dispell. If he's in range, is it not expected that other in range players could handle it? I don't see the "grief" here. Out of range is a complete different story, just as you mentioned with the "ninja looting" example.

Thanks and I'm glad you are active and open to conversation.

[awfal]

Originally Posted by Retticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another agreement.

Also in the example of our PvP night in tov, Apex chose to park themselves at the zoneout, they cannot cry train when mobs are agroed enroute. They have a zone out to walk through.

Thanks and I'm glad you are active and open to conversation.

in this instance, if your force's goal was leaving said zone they should have used the west exit (faction mobs) and not the east exit (where all mobs scowl).

[Retticus]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My personal opinion is that people are being a bit rough on Cylock. Up until this week he had a chill job on Red, hanging out with Apex and people handing out cookies and probably only needing to deal with small issues like OOC abuse and the occasional berg out. Now suddenly there is mass pvp with all the problems it presents and he is forced to make rulings on the spot. I sympathize with him and feel confident that he cares deeply about making Red99 an attractive place to play. What would help greatly for all parties involved, both staff and players, are clear stickied rules that will help alleviate many of the "off the cuff rulings" that we have dealt with in the past. That way we can help plan our PvP tactics accordingly, without fear of possibly being suspended.

Thanks!

I think we can all agree on this.

[Gardur]

It seems the basis of the problem here is Cylock doesn't have any idea how things have been done in the past and thus is making calls based on the letter of the law without regard to our elf law version of jurisprudence.

That is how Red Dawn was forced to eat YT to force LNS, because the rules simply say "died". Later this was reinterpreted to just mean the force "lost".

With no regard to the past ruling that pelling in range of at least person in the raid force is allowed; he just read the rules and took them literally.

We're adaptive people we can deal with rule changes but we were given NO NOTICE and ate character suspensions based on a rule change we had no idea happened.

Sirken could have cleared everything up by tossing out some warnings and posting a rule clarification instead he just moved the appeals to resolved.

[Andrei Chikatilo]

RULES CLARIFICATION, GOOD ONE


GET A LOAD OF THIS DOCTOR JEFF GOY

[Cylock]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) dispelling raid mobs. In the past, this has been allowed regardless of circumstances, now it's being called raid disruption. Personally, I think if the character is out of range it should be raid disruption, but whatever the ruling is we should have one clear rule stickied so that everyone is on notice, rather than just suspending people on the spot.

So you understand my rulings, if you come in with a force to kill a NPC or PvP, dispelling IS permitted. But one single toon by themselves chain dispelling a raid target while another guild is killing it, not on my watch! Its a lame move, and your doing nothing but trying to wipe another guild and cause them an XP loss, which is against the rules.

Intentionally causing experience-loss to other players in the PvP environment is illegal in all cases and may result in disciplinary action when witnessed by a P99CSR.

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2) training. In Velious zone PvP, mobs are going to get involved 95% of the time. Not everyone has faction in thurg/Kael/skyshrine/ToV, and many of these zones have mobs two inches from the zone in making aggro almost unavoidable, particularly skyshrine. Is having these types of mobs on you during PvP considered training, or is training going to be intentionally grabbing a bunch of mobs and dropping it on a force for the purpose of disruption? My preference would be the latter. No one wants to get suspended over an icewell sentry at the zone in sticking to them like a melee using the new HPT UI.

Intentionally causing experience-loss to other players in the PvP environment is illegal in all cases and may result in disciplinary action when witnessed by a P99CSR. This includes things such as intentionally training NPCs. We do understand that there are cases where the experience-loss is unintentional, and no disciplinary action will be taken in those cases.

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3) Force LNS. My understanding was always that if you didn't die in the PvP you were fair game, and that only essential classes to the CR from the zone were allowed. Last night it appeared confusing what was accurate. Let's clear this one up once and for all on the sticky as well.

In large scale PvP (7 or more players on both sides), LnS must be called by a force as a whole. Individuals may not invoke Loot and Scoot. LnS may be called by the force at any time, this option may never be forfeited. If a fight took place across multiple zones, the force is considered to have finished LnS'ing once all of their players have left the zones affected. All other LnS rules still apply.

Last night myself, Braknar, and Sirken was in voice chat having a meeting, and there was some slight confusion for a short time. But was quickly resolved. With that said, if a FORCE LNS is called it covers the entire force who called it. If anyone else remains in the zone alive, they must immediately exit. I do however see no problem with a cleric helping rez the dead to enable them to LNS more quickly, or in *some* cases (if players are KoS/Faction issues) a monk helping to drag a corpse to enable the defeated party to LNS quicker.

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4) ninja looting on OOR characters. Not a huge issue but one I've also seen conflicting rulings on. Personally I think since you can't resolve it via PvP it should be against the rules.

I have saw this once, and iirc the person was in range. It was so long ago, so I cant be sure. Anyway, it is against the rules if the person is on a OOR character.

I hope this helps! See you on the battlefield friends!

[Lasher]

Originally Posted by Cylock [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you understand my rulings, if you come in with a force to kill a NPC or PvP, dispelling IS permitted. But one single toon by themselves chain dispelling a raid target while another guild is killing it, not on my watch! Its a lame move, and your doing nothing but trying to wipe another guild and cause them an XP loss, which is against the rules.

Ok so if its just one person diseplling its not ok. Thanks for clarifying

[Onigumi]

Originally Posted by Cylock [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you understand my rulings, if you come in with a force to kill a NPC or PvP, dispelling IS permitted. But one single toon by themselves chain dispelling a raid target while another guild is killing it, not on my watch! Its a lame move, and your doing nothing but trying to wipe another guild and cause them an XP loss, which is against the rules.

Hows is 3 people pelling a mob and 20 any different in both cases you dispel a mob and it kills people and they lose exp.

Originally Posted by Ivah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Breaking hide, sneak, and feign is now against the rules. Just gonna throw this out there "This us a red server. Red things happen."

This "Intentionally causing experience-loss to other players in the PvP environment is illegal in all cases and may result in disciplinary action when witnessed by a P99CSR" rule sounds like it was made to protect players leveling up or from having their binds trained but instead has been used as a cure all for staff to susp people.

the player base that's getting susp for this huge grey area of a rule is lvl 60 with max exp and rezes available. They lose maybe 1% exp.

As it's been stated 95% of the player base will run in to mobs to die rather then take a YT.