"Fair and legitimate chance at a target" (cont)

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still, 10% is criminally low and the number is being used to make a point (falsely).

A/A each have over 100 active raiders. Being conservative we can call that 200 active raiders (it is much higher). 200 is 10% of 2,000. Can you honestly tell me that there are 1,800 non-A/A active raiders on this server?

Again, I don't mean to nitpick the number but calling it 90/10 is clouding the issue.

I mean we could call it 80/20 but it's splitting hairs. A vast majority of the server can't progress through content due to the costs associated with raiding on p99. None of those guilds want handouts, they just don't want to sock, batphone, screen share, rule lawyer, etc so in your eyes they don't deserve anything.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys (Chest and Legday) are arguing two different topics.

Chest is right, A/A makes up maybe 10% of the raid scene. Legday is also right, A/A makes up maybe 40%+ of the ToV/Kael/Skyshrine/Thurgadin/etc. raid scene. So.. Sure, there are droves of guilds and players raiding on this server. They raid Plane of Fear clears, Plane of Hate crawls, maybe Chardok Royals, maybe Halls of Testing clears.. But they don't show up for the end game raiding. Of course they will say it is due to the raid scene, and I am sure that is true for them. But either way, if you don't show up to try, how can you argue?

They don't show up because of the risk vs reward. The reward is shiny pixels. The risk is being exposed to any or all of the 10 p99 raid scene plagues.

[Lammy]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But either way, if you don't show up to try, how can you argue?

I think it's because standing at the line for potentially 16 hours straight is not most people idea of fun.

[Krashin]

Originally Posted by Lammy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it's because standing at the line for potentially 16 hours straight is not most people idea of fun.

Truth. Kerb made it about 15 mins on the line and said

" Turns out this isn't for me" and gated

[Raev]

I'm not 100% retired, but I'm only logging in for a few batphones a week and I haven't done any farming in months.

Somehow I can't seem to explain to the staff that the vast majority of players here would be fine with competition as long as that competition doesn't center around poopsocking, undetectable cheating, 3AM batphones, and rule lawyering. Rogean automating repops would be a massive step forward here.

[Pokesan]

sirken didn't tell casuals to leave. he told them to leave if they want to raid.

that's an important difference for some reason

[Barcelona]

I personally was not around during the R/C/FFA days, and I may not understand fully how it all worked. It is my understanding that this system allowed for all of the above requests, in a fair and negotiable way (everyone gave up something).

It allowed for the:
1. competition that some crave
2. a chance for those to enjoy encounters they may not otherwise have,
3. hell, it even allowed for the poopsock 16 hour wallstaring if that was your thing.

It seems to me none of these were all of the time 24/7.

All things in moderation I suppose

It almost seems what we need is everyone to come to the table and develop this system again, as it pertains to at least SOME VELIOUS RAID MOBS, if not, all of them. I for one personally enjoy the rush of competition, with no uncontested rotations. I guess what I am wondering is this:

Was this R/C/FFA system a way to have guilds compete with each other, with whom are on the same level, give or take, of competition?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Barcelona [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally was not around during the R/C/FFA days, and I may not understand fully how it all worked. It is my understanding that this system allowed for all of the above requests, in a fair and negotiable way (everyone gave up something).

It allowed for the:
1. competition that some crave
2. a chance for those to enjoy encounters they may not otherwise have,
3. hell, it even allowed for the poopsock 16 hour wallstaring if that was your thing.

It seems to me none of these were all of the time 24/7.

All things in moderation I suppose

It almost seems what we need is everyone to come to the table and develop this system again, as it pertains to at least SOME VELIOUS RAID MOBS, if not, all of them. I for one personally enjoy the rush of competition, with no uncontested rotations. I guess what I am wondering is this:

Was this R/C/FFA system a way to have guilds compete with each other, with whom are on the same level, give or take, of competition?

I'll try to answer this but I'm on a phone. The system allowed for differing play styles but the end result was the class C big dogs were still getting the vast majority of the kills. Class R had a rotation for a year that eventually fell apart when the big guilds (BDA, Taken, Div) got frustrated with the way the smaller guilds would each keep a rotation slot but continue to ally for targets thus bloating the rotation. This led to class R being hardcore-lite.

The p99 raid scene is an arms race. Once a new effective tactic becomes discovered it gets adopted by everyone. Not using the best tactics means you don't get loot so everyone is forced to adapt to the highest common denominator. The class system could come back into play but there would have to be an insane amount of cooperation between all the class R guilds. Historically that never works out long term because you end up with 6-10 dividing up 33% of the content, and realistically it will be less than that because you can be sure there will be a selection of mobs that only class C gets access to (in kunark only class C guilds got access to VP)

[Bubbles]

The original server rules were the first group of associated people to put 15 butts on a spawn point got the mob.

That was how little the staff wanted to be involved in the raid scene in the beginning.

Fast forward 8 years, and here we are. Only difference is the raiding scene still has a self-important view of itself.

Nilbog didn't build this beast to grab popcorn and see who got Lord Nagafen each week. New flash.

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That was how little the staff wanted to be involved in the raid scene in the beginning.

CSR on this server should be forced to participate in their own rules if they want to implement them.

Let's see how long these rules last then.

There is no way Sirken would do a hundredth of the shit he forces everyone else here to do for mobs.