Can anything be done about multiquesting?

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by renordw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, I think we're approaching the point where a decision has to be made about whether the game should "feel classic" or have every single "classic technicality"

P99 has already made that decision, as you allude to - the AoE nerf, the epic level restriction, etc.

Originally Posted by renordw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For me, the game no longer "feels" classic, obviously.

There are some tweaks that could make it "feel classic" at the sacrifice of "classic technicalities."

Not everyone's experience of "classic" is the same - this comes up a lot because P99 is essentially a blue server, which attracts blue players, but the creators primarily played on PvP servers. What they wanted to create was a blue server with the competitiveness of a red server, and I'd say they've more or less succeeded. Just like it's not the same '90s everyone's going back to in their head - you liked Nirvana, but never listened Third Eye Blind, etc. The classic experience on red servers was a lot different than the blue classic experience - multiquesting and item recharging et al were more ubiquitous, competition was more extreme, and people were less friendly.

[renordw]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 has already made that decision, as you allude to - the AoE nerf, the epic level restriction, etc.



Not everyone's experience of "classic" is the same - this comes up a lot because P99 is essentially a blue server, which attracts blue players, but the creators primarily played on PvP servers. What they wanted to create was a blue server with the competitiveness of a red server, and I'd say they've more or less succeeded. Just like it's not the same '90s everyone's going back to in their head - you liked Nirvana, but never listened Third Eye Blind, etc. The classic experience on red servers was a lot different than the blue classic experience - multiquesting and item recharging et al were more ubiquitous, competition was more extreme, and people were less friendly.

About that item recharging, how is that not a huge exploit?

[paulgiamatti]

It is. Just like multiquesting.

But I see what you're saying - why nerf AoE and epics but not multiquesting and item recharging? It all just comes back to GM discretion, but it's definitely worth discussing - I don't want to shut down the conversation or anything. Tons of people were saying the exact same thing about epics before those were nerfed - "it's too far along in the timeline, not classic, will never happen", etc. Anything can happen on a whim on P99, and the server sways to the whims of lord nilbog.

[fastboy21]

It depends how you define exploit.

It's true some classic "mechanics" were really just unintended features/bugs that players figured out how to use in creative and emergent ways---sometimes in game defining ways, so much so that the original devs left them in game and decided to developed the game around them. We know this mostly by statements that the original and early teams made about the game.

As far as I'm concerned, for all intents and purposes on p99, classic eq means exactly whatever Nilbog/Rogean say it is. They were forced to make choices based on available information, limitations of the client, and their own logical interpretation of the vision they have for p99. Its their play pen.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's true some classic "mechanics" were really just unintended features/bugs that players figured out how to use in creative and emergent ways---sometimes in game defining ways, so much so that the original devs left them in game and decided to developed the game around them.

Well yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the definition of "exploit". I mean, of course you were supposed to be able to buy and sell charged and uncharged items using vendors, but there's no question about what the exploit is.

Multiquesting, on the other hand, is entirely an exploit - it was not an intended mechanic in any way. Whether they realized this at some point and decided to just leave it in is another topic, but it was absolutely not the original intention.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the definition of "exploit". I mean, of course you were supposed to be able to buy and sell charged and uncharged items using vendors, but there's no question about what the exploit is.

Multiquesting, on the other hand, is entirely an exploit - it was not an intended mechanic in any way. Whether they realized this at some point and decided to just leave it in is another topic, but it was absolutely not the original intention.

Exactly my point PG. MQ'ing became part of EQ for a very long time. Content was even designed after launch to take advantage of players abilities to MQ. It is a perfect example of the game mechanics being used by players in unintended and advantage ways (the definition of exploit as I know it) that actually became a regular part of the game design. Same with item recharging.

Whether or not these types of situations are properly "classic" is a play by play call that Nilbog and Rogean and other devs have made as they created p99. The difference between "emergent game play" and "exploit" is really kind of subjective.

[snead]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly my point PG. MQ'ing became part of EQ for a very long time. Content was even designed after launch to take advantage of players abilities to MQ. It is a perfect example of the game mechanics being used by players in unintended and advantage ways (the definition of exploit as I know it) that actually became a regular part of the game design. Same with item recharging.

Whether or not these types of situations are properly "classic" is a play by play call that Nilbog and Rogean and other devs have made as they created p99. The difference between "emergent game play" and "exploit" is really kind of subjective.

why dont all you nerds just tweet the king nerd who can make the final ruling? https://twitter.com/Aradune

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly my point PG. MQ'ing became part of EQ for a very long time. Content was even designed after launch to take advantage of players abilities to MQ. It is a perfect example of the game mechanics being used by players in unintended and advantage ways (the definition of exploit as I know it) that actually became a regular part of the game design. Same with item recharging.

Whether or not these types of situations are properly "classic" is a play by play call that Nilbog and Rogean and other devs have made as they created p99. The difference between "emergent game play" and "exploit" is really kind of subjective.

Yeah, that's a good point - when I think of a game exploit I'm thinking more of actual mechanics that are designed to function in a specific way. In other words, bugs in the game's design that are then used advantageously and exploited. I'd probably make the case that a bug is a given or a requirement for something to be considered an exploit - otherwise it's just gaming the system, or playing prodigiously well, or "emergent gameplay", or something.

For example, a pathing exploit utilizes a bug involving pathing nodes and AI mechanics that could be corrected for, even though everything else the exploiter does is perfectly legitimate. The bards in Qeynos that could be slowly dotted to death from the city ramparts involved a bug where the NPCs didn't execute an AI script, or if they did they'd indefinitely run around and never find a way to reach the player - another pathing bug, for all intents and purpses.

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as I'm concerned, for all intents and purposes on p99, classic eq means exactly whatever Nilbog/Rogean say it is. They were forced to make choices based on available information, limitations of the client, and their own logical interpretation of the vision they have for p99. Its their play pen.

Yes and no. Had they just said "this is our server, it is how it is, we're trying to make it classic like". Then that would all be peachy keen and groovy. Fact is though. They have come out and said that there whole goal is to make this as classic as possible. Nil if has even said he wants it to be like a museum to the game he played and loved. Which I think is awesome. But once they said it's classic or die. And defined there era of classic as being old world, kunark, and velious only. Then they opened it up to the public and the public opinions of what is classic. The only way to get through the onslaught from both sides is to never waver from your goal of a pure, classic as it was in 1999 server. And fact is, in 1999 I could bard kite whole zones with a half decent computer and a steady internet connection. A level 1 cleric with its epic could clicky 96% Rez his buddies in west Freeport. The boats actually came every twenty minutes. Hide/sneak combo wasn't an auto memblur. And there was only one, I repeat ONE chat window for everything. They should either go all the way to pure classic. Or publish a list of the non classic changes they intend to make. No more of this "were a pure classic server, except for..... this..... and that.... and that thing over there..... and maybe that other thing we are gonna think up later.

[renordw]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes and no. Had they just said "this is our server, it is how it is, we're trying to make it classic like". Then that would all be peachy keen and groovy. Fact is though. They have come out and said that there whole goal is to make this as classic as possible. Nil if has even said he wants it to be like a museum to the game he played and loved. Which I think is awesome. But once they said it's classic or die. And defined there era of classic as being old world, kunark, and velious only. Then they opened it up to the public and the public opinions of what is classic. The only way to get through the onslaught from both sides is to never waver from your goal of a pure, classic as it was in 1999 server. And fact is, in 1999 I could bard kite whole zones with a half decent computer and a steady internet connection. A level 1 cleric with its epic could clicky 96% Rez his buddies in west Freeport. The boats actually came every twenty minutes. Hide/sneak combo wasn't an auto memblur. And there was only one, I repeat ONE chat window for everything. They should either go all the way to pure classic. Or publish a list of the non classic changes they intend to make. No more of this "were a pure classic server, except for..... this..... and that.... and that thing over there..... and maybe that other thing we are gonna think up later.

The level 1 with the epic speaks to the "classic feel" over the "classic mechanics." There were simply not that many level 1 clerics with the means to have a click stick, so the devs here had to make a creative solution to make the game play more like it did in classic, despite sacrificing some of the mechanics.

The bard AoE thing, I feel like everybody has amnesia. Doesn't anybody remember swarm kiting, where you would charm one of the things in your swarm, and send it in to get slaughtered by the rest?

I also don't remember the mechanics of how it worked, but on my druid sometimes things would attack me in Qeynos Hills and bears would attack those things to help me out.