Westworld (2016 Fall Schedule - HBO Premium Series)

[Borak]

I figured it would be a good show. Jonathan Nolan with an HBO budget and no network restrictions? Hell yeah.

This is the guy that tricked CBS into thinking they were getting a regular cop show with Person of Interest. Sure, a lot of the early episodes were self-contained bad-guy-of-the-week episodes, but he laid the seeds for what became a science-fiction show with a central arc of emerging sentient AIs and their conflict with each other, while touching on topics such as the debate between deontological vs. utilitarian codes of ethics and The Great Filter by way of Fermi's Paradox, among other things.

The cool part is, that Person of Interest never used the old trope of mentioning a scientific term, having a character say 'English please', and then explaining the term. He trusted that the audience was intelligent enough to figure things out, and didn't dumb things down for the audience. This has continued into Westworld.

(For those that watched a few early episodes of PoI and got bored, check out S02E21 and S02E22 - the final two episodes of Season 2 - where it becomes apparent to everyone in the main cast that Finch's Machine is actually alive.)

So yeah, Jonathan Nolan actually getting to tell the story he wants to tell with a higher budget can only be a good thing.

[AzzarTheGod]

Good post Borak. I wasn't familiar with Nolan specifically, but I'm very familiar with Person of Interest.

Latest episode continued to deliver. Wonder how ratings are?

[FatMice]

This show is absolutely fantastic. Some of the writing is top notch and then other times it's like wtf? Love the story lines, love the timeless setting, amazing details on the clothing and set design. If you haven't already, check out this show!

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by FatMice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some of the writing is top notch and then other times it's like wtf?

You get lost easily on the plot development on this show. Its brilliant to retarded.

When it gets retarded, you often need a website critic to recap the episode for you.

As predicted, its difficult to 100% follow every single plot development or even understand the implications of a thread without having an insider website feed you the recap and tell you how to interpret it or fill in exactly what something was supposed to mean.

Which I don't mind, but albeit the masses are barely following along. Sometimes on 5.1 surround sound I have to rewind a sentence just because its critical plot development (apparently) and the sentence will make absolutely no sense or have any meaning to me-- that's where you feel better after hitting that recap blog.

There is usually 1 moment of plot comprehension frustration per episode, if not 2. Oh and before some sperglord hauls off with "NO I understand the plot". Oh yeah, believe me, I do too....No, I am not talking about what you think the major story arc is. Its the plot thread development where the confusion is. The sum of parts, and the dialogue which is meant to advance the plot is very poor.

And often times can't be made any sense of at all without a guru with the inside track (usually those cable TV review website blogs) handing you the entire summary of the episode.

I know I can't be the only one who feels this way.

Essentially, yes we know the major plot arcs. But the DETAILS of these arcs and story threads are being told in a very messy fashion. The exposition dialogue is very "welp, hope the audience makes sense of that steaming shitter haha" , "CUT. WRAP! We're done."

Don't have specific examples offhand, my brain isn't open to recall at the moment.

[Barkingturtle]

Usually love HBO's offerings. Rome, Oz and Deadwood are among my favorites.

But Westworld is not really grabbing me. It's two parts middling sci-fi and one part terrible Western. Haven't watched the past two episodes yet but hoping it gets better. So far it reminds me of Carnivale: the sort of low-brow, cliched intrigue that keeps you tuning in with the expectation something profound might be expressed next time, that all this schlock is building toward something which never arrives.

[Spyder73]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Usually love HBO's offerings. Rome, Oz and Deadwood are among my favorites.

But Westworld is not really grabbing me. It's two parts middling sci-fi and one part terrible Western. Haven't watched the past two episodes yet but hoping it gets better. So far it reminds me of Carnivale: the sort of low-brow, cliched intrigue that keeps you tuning in with the expectation something profound might be expressed next time, that all this schlock is building toward something which never arrives.

Although I am a supporter of the show I can 100% identify with this opinion. It would be very disappointing if they keep playing "just the tip" and the big melt down that everyone is waiting for never happens or is strung out for so long that it makes the build up a let down.

I have faith that it will work itself out in a more timely manner - Anthony Hopkins wouldn't have signed up unless something good was coming relatively quickly.

[FatMice]

The main point regarding the writing for me was after 5 episodes of, the man in the black who is going after the Maze as he is looking for clues, he kills person after person getting little to no information. Then in two lines, Teddy just basically explains exactly what the Maze is. I was like wtf? How hidden is this "maze" actually? Blame it on a short season I suppose.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by FatMice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main point regarding the writing for me was after 5 episodes of, the man in the black who is going after the Maze as he is looking for clues, he kills person after person getting little to no information. Then in two lines, Teddy just basically explains exactly what the Maze is. I was like wtf? How hidden is this "maze" actually? Blame it on a short season I suppose.

Well we can't be sure that Ford's upgrade to Teddy's storyline was not involved with this? It seems indeed, it is involved. Which also makes Ford involved.

Keep in mind that isn't just off-the-shelf Episode 1 Teddy, that's Teddy with his "new storyline" that Ford said he was ready for.

I'd guess that's the explanation. Ford is playing a game. We don't know if Ford wants MIB to find the maze or not.

I tried to parse all interactions between man in black + Ford at that barroom conversation, it was very difficult to parse whether Ford is playing a game with the man in black, whether he wants him to find the maze (giving MIB what he wants), or wishes to prevent him from finding the maze.

^ that's how I see it and where I am at on it.

[AzzarTheGod]

Additionally, I feel Wyatt and his crew are a renegade storyline designed by Ford (or someone) to ensure that people do not find the maze-- or die trying.

[FatMice]

Yea but at the same time it felt like Ford didn't know what the maze really was; we don't even know what the maze really is. The scene when he walks into the Indian town and he sees the map carved on the table, it's like he sees it for the first time.

But you're right, was that line a modification to Teddy's story making Ford the link between the maze and these new quest line MIB is looking to uncover?

Also, it seems no matter what the time, place, and space, if you're a young confident woman walking into a dark abandoned shack knowing someone was there up to no good, you go alone! That shit was just predictable.