So now that druid spells got hammered...

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by I said

In the meantime, why don't you actually say what needs to be nerfed about mage pets and Enchanter charm? Why don't you bug report it (with evidence) and actually contribute to the project, instead of whining about it?

Originally Posted by To which you said

The inaccuracies of druid dot stacking, damage shield duration and SoW/SoC stacking had very little impact ... Imbalances in the other classes have skewed the entire history of the server.

What imbalances? Please actually respond instead of just recapitulating things you've already said.

Originally Posted by I said

If druids are nerfed back to classic and another class isn't, this is pareto better than if they just kept every class in its un-classic form, since the goal of this server is to be classic. You have some weird concept of fairness where one class can't get a significant (and classically accurate) nerf unless all other classes do. I guess they should just stop patching the server until they find something to nerf for each class.

Originally Posted by To which you said

(nothing)

I guess I understand why at the end of your post you committed to not responding to me again: you never had anything substantive to say in response to me in the first place, and further replies would just make it clearer how asinine this thread was.

Originally Posted by You said

You're a fucking idiot.

You sure argue civilly for a 50 year old [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What imbalances? Please actually respond instead of just recapitulating things you've already said.

He is referring to Whirl till you Hurl like everyone else.

The story goes: It was nerfed 2 weeks (or whatever) into classic. Casting Tash + Whirl kept mobs chain stunned very very easily and it was really BS. Add single resist check, LONG duration root and there was barely any risk to the enchanter since even DDs-break-root didn't exist for awhile.

Basically two things happened when it got nerfed:

1. Instead of being "all or nothing" it gained a random duration like root! Now every time whirl did land it was for a random 0 to 12 seconds instead of the full 12 seconds. That straight up more than halved its effectiveness.

2. It became a mesmerize line spell in contrast to a stun line spell. This meant that if any melee hit the mob during those 0-12 seconds they broke the stun. Additionally a mobs attack would continue to refresh while stunned, allowing the mob to attack just as soon as the stun broke. This made it useless as a combat mez other than to keep the mob from beating the enchanter while they reevaluated or refreshed another spell.

So... Neither of these work here and enchanters are locking down mobs like Undertow and Estrella of Gloomwater with a much lower chance of failure.

Undertow normally kills a charmed seahorses guard taken from his spawn even with 60-70% haste and weapons to quad. With Whirl he rarely is able to cast Ice Commet as he literally spends most of the fight stunned while the pet DPSs.

I can't personally solo Estrella and so don't try. However I doubt she is supposed to be pleasant to kill at all either. (She is a 51 druid that starts out with a 29 DS and should cast Superior Healing at least as soon as the spell changes preceding Kunark.)

A certain enchanter who probably wont remain nameless for long spent months selling the shoulder items off of these mobs starting at around 35,000pp and 50,000pp respectively. This went on for several months and neither item dropped below 20,0000 pp in this time. That person alone obviously had the opportunity to make half a million platinum if not a full million or more off of this bug if not a few others, too. (Like mobs not pathing into LOS to cast and choosing to melee pitifully instead. Pathing in KK was JUST fixed patch before last.)

Sufficeth to say there is reason to be angry and frustrated.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by eriamjh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He is referring to Whirl till you Hurl like everyone else.

The story goes: It was nerfed 2 weeks (or whatever) into classic. Casting Tash + Whirl kept mobs chain stunned very very easily and it was really BS. Add single resist check, LONG duration root and there was barely any risk to the enchanter since even DDs-break-root didn't exist for awhile.

Basically two things happened when it got nerfed:

1. Instead of being "all or nothing" it gained a random duration like root! Now every time whirl did land it was for a random 0 to 12 seconds instead of the full 12 seconds. That straight up more than halved its effectiveness.

2. It became a mesmerize line spell in contrast to a stun line spell. This meant that if any melee hit the mob during those 0-12 seconds they broke the stun. Additionally a mobs attack would continue to refresh while stunned, allowing the mob to attack just as soon as the stun broke. This made it useless as a combat mez other than to keep the mob from beating the enchanter while they reevaluated or refreshed another spell.

So... Neither of these work here and enchanters are locking down mobs like Undertow and Estrella of Gloomwater with a much lower chance of failure.

Undertow normally kills a charmed seahorses guard taken from his spawn even with 60-70% haste and weapons to quad. With Whirl he rarely is able to cast Ice Commet as he literally spends most of the fight stunned while the pet DPSs.

I can't personally solo Estrella and so don't try. However I doubt she is supposed to be pleasant to kill at all either. (She is a 51 druid that starts out with a 29 DS and should cast Superior Healing at least as soon as the spell changes preceding Kunark.)

A certain enchanter who probably wont remain nameless for long spent months selling the shoulder items off of these mobs starting at around 35,000pp and 50,000pp respectively. This went on for several months and neither item dropped below 20,0000 pp in this time. That person alone obviously had the opportunity to make half a million platinum if not a full million or more off of this bug if not a few others, too. (Like mobs not pathing into LOS to cast and choosing to melee pitifully instead. Pathing in KK was JUST fixed patch before last.)

Sufficeth to say there is reason to be angry and frustrated.

Actually he said "Enchanter charm", so I don't think he was referring to Whirl - although I have no problem with Whirl getting nerfed (even though I have an enchanter). I think the silliness of this is that he claims that his class is unfairly nerfed, yet won't even bug report the nerfs he thinks should happen for mages/enchanters. By all means, try to get Whirl nerfed if you think it's classic - I just think that doing so with strong evidence and a good attitude in the Bugs forum is a lot more productive than what Alawen is doing. Basically, there's no reason it won't get changed if you can provide enough good evidence.

I also think Ravhin is totally right.

[yaaaflow]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would say it's you who doesn't get it. Are druids taking down Brother Z or soloing every camp in LGuk? Are druids even the preferred powerlevelers?

The inaccuracies of druid dot stacking, damage shield duration and SoW/SoC stacking had very little impact on anyone except the lowbies begging for DS in EC tunnel.

Imbalances in the other classes have skewed the entire history of the server.

I have no idea why I'm responding to and I won't again. You're a fucking idiot.

Since you say you won't respond to Lazortag I'll ask:

How and what should be changed to mages and enchanters in order to make them more like classic? Is it specific mechanics that are broken that you would like to explain, or just hp/damage/etc numbers being incorrect?

Do you see any foolishness in asking for a blanket nerf on other classes because your preferred class got nerfed to be put more in line with classic?

edit: I mean obviously neither of us are particularly unbiased here - you like druids, I like mages, nobody likes their class being nerfed. On the other hand I've specifically requested nerfs to mages when I could prove they weren't like classic and if you can provide some evidence of mages being broken vs classic I'd be happy to do some further research into it and backup your findings.

[Hobby]

Go to ez server, bubbles and stop yer whinin!

<3

[Ravhin]

I just find it hilarious that all these changes were posted, in detail, by Uthgaard SIX weeks ago, yet people are just complaining now because (shocker) they didn't try them out on beta.

[Kimm Barely]

Originally Posted by Ravhin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just find it hilarious that all these changes were posted, in detail, by Uthgaard SIX weeks ago, yet people are just complaining now because (shocker) they didn't try them out on beta.

thank you for sharing this... guess its working as intended then [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[azxten]

To be honest it's starting to seem like certain classes are being left overpowered on purpose because devs play them or something.

This reminds me of how Monks can fully heal in about 15 seconds because Mend works every time you zone. There are a few classes that are ridiculously overpowered compared to classic but they aren't being changed.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest it's starting to seem like certain classes are being left overpowered on purpose because devs play them or something.

This reminds me of how Monks can fully heal in about 15 seconds because Mend works every time you zone. There are a few classes that are ridiculously overpowered compared to classic but they aren't being changed.

Well you shouldn't feel that way. The developers which would decide classes need change, and the ones who make the changes do not even play. The devs quoted in this thread, aside from uthgaard, either don't develop anymore, or do pathing.

We are all about nerfs.. and that's why nearly every patch includes the nerfing of something. Not because nerfs make it easy on someone, it's because enough evidence and development has been put into it to make a classic change.

If you want something in particular nerfed, explain in detail what is wrong with it and how we can realistically change it. Specifically.. how it worked in classic versus how it works on p99. If there is already a thread about it, bring it back to life with those details.

[azxten]

If you want something in particular nerfed, explain in detail what is wrong with it and how we can realistically change it. Specifically.. how it worked in classic versus how it works on p99. If there is already a thread about it, bring it back to life with those details.

So if this is the way to get this issues fixed why was Whirl Till You Hurl left broken for that last 5-6 months since the thread started on it and confirmation from a dev that it would be nerfed?

It's rather depressing when I'm in a group and the healers are OOM and the enc says, "Oh don't worry I'll just whirl" and absolutely no damage is taken the whole fight. That never happened in classic.

Also I made a thread on the exploits forum about Monk mend working every time you zone and never got a reply. There has been like 3-4 patches since then and still no fix (unless it was fixed last night). I also bumped that thread twice.

I know of one Monk in particular who has gone from 25-45 so far just soloing and abusing this exploit by fighting near zone lines. Petitioned multiple times, etc and both the exploit and him are still around.

This is even more frustrating because I've apped to be a guide/dev and bumped that thread a few times with zero response as well. I can understand being busy but why aren't more staff being created to address these issues?

Anyway, regardless of everything I still love the server and appreciate all the work that goes into it.