Best Server Community Sin--Wait, Nevermind

[Randy]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why keep ppl sayin AC in sro is a "camp"?

its clearly not. different story in oot but not in sro.

Because its generally accepted by pretty much everyone to be a camp. I mean, there's one spawn for him. everyone knows where his spawn is. you kill his PH to get him to spawn. what makes it not a camp?

[captainspauldin]

lol half the people on this server are trash, much like ez server. if you want decent people despite somewhat of a douche gm try forrest, 90% of the people are amazing if u can put up with a baby for a gm.

[Darian]

Originally Posted by Phragmar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I guess that's my question, abstract though it may be. Is it really all the same? All the same camp-stealing, kill-stealing, loot-ninjaing, hate-filled animosity from live?

Based on everything you've said, none of those things happened in this story. That's not to say those things don't happen from time to time, but it doesn't happen as often as you seem to be afraid of- reputation does matter here.

Am I going to make it to level 40 just to have someone single-handedly turn 24-hours of hard work into a waste? It's a different perspective for me, I'll confess, since I think it accounts for a lot of why games like Everquest can't be made anymore, but maybe I was more optimistic over a few good experiences than I should have been.

That's all.

First things first- I spent a total of about 12 hours at the AC camps in Sro and OoT. I wouldn't call it "hard work" so much as "a timesink I prepared myself for."

It sucks, but at the end of the day, if you hold a camp for x hours and then die, the only "someone" who's turned your work into a waste is yourself. To use a similar example, if I'm the second person in a 3-man line for the Arch Magus camp (personal experience), and the person holding the camp dies with AM at 10% life, am I honor-bound to wait the ~20 minutes for the camp holder to get back to the camp so he can have another shot? What if he wipes again? What if it becomes clear he just can't hold the camp by himself?

It just seems the crux of your argument is that the camp holder's time was wasted. I don't know the guy in question but dying at AC camp means you either got careless, got unlucky with fizzles, or bit off more than you could chew, and the VD members just weren't responsible for any of those things. It seems unfair to everyone else who wants that camp to let him have unlimited shots and deaths at it, and I think that's a big part of why the server rules are what they are.

I don't mean to sound negative to the OP or anyone else in the thread, but if this one incident is enough to make someone upset about the state of the server, then I would recommend stopping at level 45. This game can be very competitive-- but if you're prepared to drop 20+ hours at AC camp, you probably already understand that.

[Jomama]

Hi Phragmar,

I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're upset that your friend lost the AC camp. Also Snump was not really a part of our group so please don't hold a grudge against him. Anyways I hope you guys do not hate us or VD, dieing always sucks and the AC camp tends to be very competitive as well as full of drama. We finally got the ring after 12 long hours! Take care and good luck everyone.

~Jomama Sonice

[Phragmar]

EDIT: TLDR; if this post is too long for you, don't bother reading it and don't bother responding.

This is going to be my last substantive post on this thread, barring a direct question or attack, since I think it has gone as far as it can (or should), and even if my original intention wasn't to go in an RnF direction, some of the replies have definitely gone farther that way than I would have anticipated without more experience with the forum community (which I have learned today is not at all to be confused with the actual in-game community, probably fortunately).

EDIT: Apparently there's no way to gracefully bow out of this thread, even though I don't think it can do much more in the way of being productive, but I'd rather not sit idly by while people speculate and slander, either.

First of all, to clear up a few things:
1. I've played EQ before--classic--a lot. Druid by the name of Demoree on Innoruuk had most of my time--ended up I think just inside of level 52 before I quit right after PoP was released. I'm new to the server, not the game.
2. I realize (or believe, if you prefer) people are naturally evil. Read Hobbes, got the t-shirt, etc. I contend, however, that that innate human tendency toward selfishness can be overcome.

Jomama, I told you when you took the camp that your behavior disgusted me, and it still does. I said all I wish to say to you then.

maegi, Humerox, soup, thanks for your responses; you have given me the best possible reassurance that reason and decency is not lost on everyone, and your presence in the community has been the strongest motivation I've had to stick around since the incident happened.

Most importantly, I want to spell out something clearly, since I've been pretty subtle about it before, and that's why I had the mistaken hope that the server population would understand why they should be kind to each other. Yes, I'm new here; I don't expect to have the weight of someone who has been playing on this server since it came up, but I can still appeal to common sense, and this is the crux of why the incident got to me. I also don't want to sound too patronizing if I can help it; I'm sure that everybody here who cares about the server's sustainability already knows all this and has spent enough time thinking about it for it to have already sunk in--but if you claim to care about the server and still treat people badly, maybe it hasn't:

This server has 738 clients connected right now--9:54 PM Eastern time (US) on a Wednesday night. I don't think I would be out of line to say that at least five or ten of them are bots that the devs haven't caught up to yet, and that's assuming staff is doing a stand-up job of controlling that, but maybe it's being optimistic. If you're playing EQ on P1999, you have, let's say for sake of argument, 700 people available to play with you. That's people to group with, guild with, raid with, talk to, compete with, and otherwise populate the server so you're not playing EQ by yourself. I'd like to think we can all agree that playing EQ solo all the time is a horrifying prospect and boring as hell. Even if you solo to level or farm or whatever, having other people around is what makes the game what it is. So 700. That's all. And they're not all your level. Some of them are your class, some of them are classes you don't want in your group/raid/guild/whatever, some of them are noobs who you're afraid would get you killed, and yes, alas, some of them are total asshats who you want to ignore as best you can.

If one of them leaves because you were a dick to him, you have 699. If twenty of them leave because you and four friends made the game unenjoyable for them, you have 680. If a few small guilds leave because they're overwhelmed and denied access to content because your guild has a policy of being inconsiderate, you have 600 (I'm not alleging any of this; it's hypothetical). Do you see where I'm going here? If your policy is to serve yourself at the expense of courtesy or consideration to the other gamers on the server, they will leave, and eventually the only thing left will be people who are also self-serving and loot-centric. At that point the server is dead. EQ is a wonderful game and a fantastic experience even despite the presence of douchebags on any given server, but every person's tolerance for bullshit has a limit. Why would I want to play a game, even a great game like EQ, if the only people left to play it with are pricks who would jack a camp I've held for 12 hours if I die and it takes me 60 seconds to get back to it?

That's why I expected the community as a whole to be special: because I thought that everyone understood the consequences of being cruel to other people on a server with a small population, and the fact that there aren't many other people on the server to go around. You can't afford to run them off.

Bubbles: Rilen would have still given me clarity, because he's cool like that. Thought you should know.

Also, for karsten and Rhodes and their ilk: Haters gonna hate. Maybe this thread came off a little more rantish than I originally intended, but I know a troll when I see one.

What happened between the members of VD and Rilen was wrong. That's the long and short of it. It was legal (legal, at least if the camp meets the definition of a camp under the server rules, and since I haven't seen any staff interpretation on the definition or application to this particular area of the game world, I'm not prepared to take a position on that), but what happened was fundamentally unjust. That means something to me.

If it doesn't mean anything to you, or you think I'm taking it too personally, or you'd rather make snide jokes, flame, add insulting tags or responses to me or the other side, or any other excuse you have to not actually consider the principle of what I'm saying, then I'm willing to venture at this point that you're exactly the person who needs to take a step back and actually think about it, regardless of which side you think was in the right. The way we feel about the people we play games with (whether we think they're jerks or they're just obstacles in the way of our advancement) matters, and if you think a video game isn't an appropriate forum for issues of justice versus law or human nature, you're already behind.

Peace and safety.

[Pico]

Originally Posted by Phragmar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it doesn't mean anything to you, or you think I'm taking it too personally, or you'd rather make snide jokes, flame, add insulting tags or responses to me or the other side, or any other excuse you have to not actually consider the principle of what I'm saying, then I'm willing to venture at this point that you're exactly the person who needs to take a step back and actually think about it, regardless of which side you think was in the right. The way we feel about the people we play games with (whether we think they're jerks or they're just obstacles in the way of our advancement) matters, and if you think a video game isn't an appropriate forum for issues of justice versus law or human nature, you're already behind.

This is the most white-knightiest thing I've ever read on any internet forum ever. I really think (for your own mental health) you need to take an emotional step or two back from this game, or you're going to have a complete nervous breakdown before you hit level 20.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Pico [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the most white-knightiest thing I've ever read on any internet forum ever. I really think (for your own mental health) you need to take an emotional step or two back from this game, or you're going to have a complete nervous breakdown before you hit level 20.

^^
If this thread was to be locked, it would be a shame that this would not be the final post, cuz it sums up everything perfectly well.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Phragmar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happened between the members of VD and Rilen was wrong.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Phragmar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EDIT: TLDR; if this post is too long for you, don't bother reading it and don't bother responding.

This is going to be my last post on this thread, barring a direct question or attack, since I think it has gone as far as it can (or should), and even if my original intention wasn't to go in an RnF direction, some of the replies have definitely gone farther that way than I would have anticipated without more experience with the forum community (which I have learned today is not at all to be confused with the actual in-game community, probably fortunately).

First of all, to clear up a few things:
1. I've played EQ before--classic--a lot. Druid by the name of Demoree on Innoruuk had most of my time--ended up I think just inside of level 52 before I quit right after PoP was released. I'm new to the server, not the game.
2. I realize (or believe, if you prefer) people are naturally evil. Read Hobbes, got the t-shirt, etc. I contend, however, that that innate human tendency toward selfishness can be overcome.

Jomama, I told you when you took the camp that your behavior disgusted me, and it still does. I said all I wish to say to you then.

maegi, Humerox, soup, thanks for your responses; you have given me the best possible reassurance that reason and decency is not lost on everyone, and your presence in the community has been the strongest motivation I've had to stick around since the incident happened.

Most importantly, I want to spell out something clearly, since I've been pretty subtle about it before, and that's why I had the mistaken hope that the server population would understand why they should be kind to each other. Yes, I'm new here; I don't expect to have the weight of someone who has been playing on this server since it came up, but I can still appeal to common sense, and this is the crux of why the incident got to me. I also don't want to sound too patronizing if I can help it; I'm sure that everybody here who cares about the server's sustainability already knows all this and has spent enough time thinking about it for it to have already sunk in--but if you claim to care about the server and still treat people badly, maybe it hasn't:

This server has 738 clients connected right now--9:54 PM Eastern time (US) on a Wednesday night. I don't think I would be out of line to say that at least five or ten of them are bots that the devs haven't caught up to yet, and that's assuming staff is doing a stand-up job of controlling that, but maybe it's being optimistic. If you're playing EQ on P1999, you have, let's say for sake of argument, 700 people available to play with you. That's people to group with, guild with, raid with, talk to, compete with, and otherwise populate the server so you're not playing EQ by yourself. I'd like to think we can all agree that playing EQ solo all the time is a horrifying prospect and boring as hell. Even if you solo to level or farm or whatever, having other people around is what makes the game what it is. So 700. That's all. And they're not all your level. Some of them are your class, some of them are classes you don't want in your group/raid/guild/whatever, some of them are noobs who you're afraid would get you killed, and yes, alas, some of them are total asshats who you want to ignore as best you can.

If one of them leaves because you were a dick to him, you have 699. If twenty of them leave because you and four friends made the game unenjoyable for them, you have 680. If a few small guilds leave because they're overwhelmed and denied access to content because your guild has a policy of being inconsiderate, you have 600 (I'm not alleging any of this; it's hypothetical). Do you see where I'm going here? If your policy is to serve yourself at the expense of courtesy or consideration to the other gamers on the server, they will leave, and eventually the only thing left will be people who are also self-serving and loot-centric. At that point the server is dead. EQ is a wonderful game and a fantastic experience even despite the presence of douchebags on any given server, but every person's tolerance for bullshit has a limit. Why would I want to play a game, even a great game like EQ, if the only people left to play it with are pricks who would jack a camp I've held for 12 hours if I die and it takes me 60 seconds to get back to it?

That's why I expected the community as a whole to be special: because I thought that everyone understood the consequences of being cruel to other people on a server with a small population, and the fact that there aren't many other people on the server to go around. You can't afford to run them off.

Bubbles: Rilen would have still given me clarity, because he's cool like that. Thought you should know.

Also, for karsten and Rhodes and their ilk: Haters gonna hate. Maybe this thread came off a little more rantish than I originally intended, but I know a troll when I see one.

What happened between the members of VD and Rilen was wrong. That's the long and short of it. It was legal (legal, at least if the camp meets the definition of a camp under the server rules, and since I haven't seen any staff interpretation on the definition or application to this particular area of the game world, I'm not prepared to take a position on that), but what happened was fundamentally unjust. That means something to me.

If it doesn't mean anything to you, or you think I'm taking it too personally, or you'd rather make snide jokes, flame, add insulting tags or responses to me or the other side, or any other excuse you have to not actually consider the principle of what I'm saying, then I'm willing to venture at this point that you're exactly the person who needs to take a step back and actually think about it, regardless of which side you think was in the right. The way we feel about the people we play games with (whether we think they're jerks or they're just obstacles in the way of our advancement) matters, and if you think a video game isn't an appropriate forum for issues of justice versus law or human nature, you're already behind.

Peace and safety.

Don't get discouraged. It's easier for people to make a lasting negative impression than a lasting good one. I can go buff 20 noobs and leave a lasting good impression with a couple of them, or go KS one person and leave a horribly sour taste in their mouth for a long time. Despite anything else I've said, I do believe the good people here vastly outnumber the more questionable ones.

If you're out leveling and need a SoW or crappy 9 pt DS, feel free to message me on my druid Yarghh and I'll hook you up =P (my other chars don't have much of use, lol)

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... I do believe the good people here vastly outnumber the more questionable ones.

This. Period.

huge thanks to the devs for this too...most don't realize how many idiots they've blasted off the server.

hopefully kunark will balance things out a bit.