Kael + ToV Rules

[Pan]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i mean all of ToV was in window during prime time in the evening, idk how much better it can get than that. it was like 17 simultaneous mobs.

Two things:

1) We chose to do our first ringwar at 11am US eastern (prep at 10). That should tell you something about our wheelhouse hours when we an field a legit mate force.

2) Although it might be hard for some to believe, we've really got to pick our windows. We only have so many cycles to burn on EQ. For most in CSG, EQ is entertainment/recreation that really has to take a backseat to family and other obligations. And I'm not saying that's not true of other guilds. But we seem to recruit the people who have less time to devote. Those with more and who are configured differently end up in the more 24/7 guilds.

[phiren]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If that's the case then wiping shouldn't cause the mob to FFA I would think then?

Being locked in on a mob that turns FFA and another guild engages makes 0 sense to me.

Either after a wipe you need to be unlocked and it how FFA or after a wipe you remain locked and the mob remains your FTE until the timer expires.

I really do agree with your way of thinking here, but I don't know where you are getting the "mob turns FFA after wipe" rule from, and maybe I'm missing something or interpreting the rule differently.

You have 60 minutes.

The way I interpret the rules is that wiping has 0 impact on anything. You still have 60 minutes from your FTE call.

It's obvious if you wipe at 45 minutes, you can't do it.
If you wipe at 30 minutes, maybe you still can.
If you wipe at 35 minutes... maybe you still can.

Where is the line, but more importantly, where is this even written?


~Phiren
Azure Guard

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by phiren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really do agree with your way of thinking here, but I don't know where you are getting the "mob turns FFA after wipe" rule from, and maybe I'm missing something or interpreting the rule differently.

You have 60 minutes.

The way I interpret the rules is that wiping has 0 impact on anything. You still have 60 minutes from your FTE call.

It's obvious if you wipe at 45 minutes, you can't do it.
If you wipe at 30 minutes, maybe you still can.
If you wipe at 35 minutes... maybe you still can.

Where is the line, but more importantly, where is this even written?


~Phiren
Azure Guard

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...26&postcount=3

Sirken's own post in this thread. That's where my confusion stems. I understand sort of the idea behind the FFA thing but I don't understand it if the guild wiping is still locked in. If you're still locked in, it should still be your mob. It would put a much larger cost on gambling with a mob you don't know whether you can kill or not.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) as of right now, you are locked in to what you kill for 60 min, or until it's dead. i see your point and you aren't the first person to raise this concern. Staff will discuss it, and if needed we'll add wording to allow a FTE'd target to be dropped in favor of a different target.

2) id say anywhere in the zonein room of ToV is fine. feel free to work out the exact spot with your fellow players. as for Kael, the ice/dirt interchange is fair imo.

3) agreed, and the staff will accept the concession in place of a raid suspension, just take to SS of the concession as proof should you be petitioned.

4) the guild has 60 min to engage the raid target. if they wipe, or exceed the 60 min limit on engaging, the raid target then becomes FFA and these footrace rules do not apply.

5) a guild is free to FTE another raid target as soon as they kill the mob they FTE'd, or as soon as 60 min has expired. if a guild wipes, the raid target then becomes FFA and these footrace rules do not apply.

6) as mentioned in the thread, the ToV/Kael rules are in addition to the other server rules. so not, you still can not camp out players in the vicinity of raid targets.

So if you get really lawyerquesty you could say the red indicates all the FTE 60-min, locked in stuff goes out the window depending on how you interpret it. Or just the no CotH, Gate, Shadowstep to acquire FTE goes out the window. I dunno, I'm not a young lawyer.

[Daldaen]

I fully understand the purpose of the rules and I also don't like them, but we will live with them.

I just don't understand how you can still be locked into a mob after it has become FFA and another guild could pull it and THEN race for another mob and lock themselves into that while they're killing the FFA mob in camp. Seems a bit backwards is all.

Honestly though, I think the reason all of the kills went to Awakened/Aftermath more is in favor of the spawn times rather than anything else. Having gotten home at 8PM and slept at around Midnight, the only targets that spawned while I was there were Lady M and Dain. Everything else spawned very late/early AM which most guilds don't bother contesting during those hours.

A repop on a Saturday afternoon resetting all timers to the middle of a weekend would give a far better indicator next spawn cycle on where mob distribution falls. As long as it's middle of the night in the middle of the week, I don't see mob distribution changing.

[phiren]

Never mind -- I see Sirken's amendments posted back on page 1 of this thread.

I still don't know why this amendment is necessary though. It was so simple and easy as it was originally stated.

If my guild gets FTE and 'wipes' after 5 minutes because we trained ourselves, or it was an accidental train ... I don't really understand the logic in saying the mob is now FFA.

Again -- the rule was beautiful as it was originally written. It is now complicated and I see your point.

~Phiren
Azure Guard

[phiren]

So then, let's define a wipe so it's black and white.

If 10+ people from your guild die, that is a wipe.

If 9 or less people from your guild die, but the other 50+ manage to camp out safely... this is not a wipe.

Boom! done! Now we get to count corpses too!

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

~Phiren
Azure Guard

[Pint]

if you pull a mob into camp and it leaves your camp still breathing then you failed, pretty simple hehe. aborting a kill is equivalent with wiping.

getting FTE gives you an attempt at the mob and 60 minutes to prepare that attempt, it doesnt give you an hour of unlimited attempts, that would be silly.

[phiren]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you pull a mob into camp and it leaves your camp still breathing then you failed, pretty simple hehe. aborting a kill is equivalent with wiping.

getting FTE gives you an attempt at the mob and 60 minutes to prepare that attempt, it doesnt give you an hour of unlimited attempts, that would be silly.

I'm not TRYING to be difficult here .. but I assure you this will happen:
Guild A gets FTE on mob and has an hour. 10-15 minutes in as they are positioning for it, they get a semi bad pull, or someone trains them. This pull/train doesn't even include the mob they are going after and have their 60 minute FTE on. Dozens will die, the rest will camp out to clear aggro.

Did Guild A just wipe?

~Phiren
Azure Guard

[Pint]

Originally Posted by phiren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not TRYING to be difficult here .. but I assure you this will happen:
Guild A gets FTE on mob and has an hour. 10-15 minutes in as they are positioning for it, they get a semi bad pull, or someone trains them. This pull/train doesn't even include the mob they are going after and have their 60 minute FTE on. Dozens will die, the rest will camp out to clear aggro.

Did Guild A just wipe?

~Phiren
Azure Guard

Did the dragon come in with the pull and kill people? Botching your pull is a form of wiping. If you just wipe to trash mobs then youre fine but if you attempt to pull a dragon and train yourself in the process whether or not youre at west exit or inside ntov, you've wiped yourself and forfeited your attempt imo.

[Daldaen]

For EST guilds, you're right Pint! But many guilds operate outside of that timeslot.

And of the 19~ hour window which started around 4PM... From 4PM to Midnight only.. I think 4? Raid targets of the 17 in window spawned. Nearly half the window and only a quarter of the target spawned during it. Bad luck.