Will 1999 ever happen again?

[joppykid]

Originally Posted by mr_jon3s [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The next MMO that will really hook people will be something that uses VR. Till we finally get full body immersion capsules that let you feel some of your characters sensations.

Just like this movie?

[SamwiseRed]

No it will never be 1999 again.

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by SamwiseRed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No it will never be 1999 again.

well then let's get to work on the backwards time machine

[barrettdc1]

Originally Posted by Pokesan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well then let's get to work on the backwards time machine

Been done.

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[Tann]

Originally Posted by Morningbreath [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

does anybody else think a tougher MMO could be on the horizon?

No.

too big of a risk for a game developer, it's just going to get "more accessible" (easier) and flashier. sub fees still exist in some games but that will completely go away and we'll get much more invasive cash shops.

GW2 and the like rim the edges with their cosmetics, future games will go at least wrist deep.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GW2 and the like rim the edges with their cosmetics, future games will go at least wrist deep.

On the surface, and so they can claim no p2w. But what is actually happening there is players buy cosmetics to sell to other players, then buy the best gear that takes forever to get the normal way. Full on impulse P2W with capital letters. This they said they weren't going to do, so we paid the hefty box fee. But they did it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't even get me started on the gambling scheme there with the black lion chests. The big whales spend $1000's in that game, seriously, have met many.

This is all games do now, their whole development plan revolves around getting big money from a small amount of people. If an idea that makes the game more fun interferes with another plan which targets their big ass cash cows, well out goes the fun. So no, it's over, it's what they are all doing.

[Lune]

Don't fall into the common trap of believing challenge is what is missing from things like WoW and gives EQ its soul. WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way. PvP is necessarily more challenging than anything on Blue because your opponent has the capacity to be smarter than you. WoW's raiding is far more complicated from a tactical standpoint.

What EQ has is tedium, and delayed gratification. It takes a long time to achieve something, and your achievements generally feel good. Also, the sense of community that comes from the absolute need to rely on other people (to travel, to barter items, to level (for most classes)). The destruction of WoW's community that occurred during Wrath is what really, more than any other single thing, destroyed WoW for millions. You were no longer in a cohort with your fellow players, had any reason to interact with or rely on them, etc.

Every MMO since has had the same problem. The extreme on-the-rails nature of their content, soloability, and convenience has resulted in an experience where social bonds seldom formed organically the way they do on P99, and meaningful interaction is really what ultimately fuels enjoyment of an MMO for many people.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way.

It was? Weird, because the four months I played, I couldn't stop feeling I was a goat endlessly chasing carrots. It was the first mmo that I literally fell to sleep at while playing, and I think I got another gold star thingy while doing it. I remember it as about the dumbest game (well not as bad as AC2), little to no thought or planning required. Just hop in, follow the arrows, nibble on a carrot, get a reward/achievement, then log. I could flex my brain in games like EQ, UO, EVE, SWG, AO. But in WoW, I just flat-lined.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was? Weird, because the four months I played, I couldn't stop feeling I was a goat endlessly chasing carrots. It was the first mmo that I literally fell to sleep at while playing, and I think I got another gold star thingy while doing it. I remember it as about the dumbest game (well not as bad as AC2), little to no thought or planning required. Just hop in, follow the arrows, nibble on a carrot, get a reward/achievement, then log. I could flex my brain in games like EQ, UO, EVE, SWG, AO. But in WoW, I just flat-lined.

You clearly didn't read or understand my post, but:

Like I said in my post, WoW has PvP, which is as difficult as your opponent's skill and intelligence (sometimes greater than your own). Did you clear the hardest heroic content? EQ raid content doesn't even come close to being as challenging. Tedium is different than challenge. Playing an enchanter or bard really well, splitting with a monk, isn't as difficult as playing arenas at even a medium level.

Some of the class rotations were also far more complicated and involved than your typical EQ 1-button warm-body buttonmashing.

Dying and going on a corpse run is tedious. There's nothing hard about having to run really far to get your body. It's just a punishment that adds a sense of risk and excitement to the game (And also reliance on other people). It was this tedium that was missing from WoW, not challenge.

[Dacien]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't fall into the common trap of believing challenge is what is missing from things like WoW and gives EQ its soul. WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way. PvP is necessarily more challenging than anything on Blue because your opponent has the capacity to be smarter than you. WoW's raiding is far more complicated from a tactical standpoint.

What EQ has is tedium, and delayed gratification. It takes a long time to achieve something, and your achievements generally feel good. Also, the sense of community that comes from the absolute need to rely on other people (to travel, to barter items, to level (for most classes)). The destruction of WoW's community that occurred during Wrath is what really, more than any other single thing, destroyed WoW for millions. You were no longer in a cohort with your fellow players, had any reason to interact with or rely on them, etc.

Every MMO since has had the same problem. The extreme on-the-rails nature of their content, soloability, and convenience has resulted in an experience where social bonds seldom formed organically the way they do on P99, and meaningful interaction is really what ultimately fuels enjoyment of an MMO for many people.

Instead of "challenge", I think of it as consequence and immersion. The world in P99 is more alive and wondrous because death means so much. And every locale you visit usually meant a long trek. A long trek in which you again get to take in the world.

Classic EQ and P99 have immersion nailed, and it's because of the gravity of death and the realism of slow migration.

Of course, none of this applies when you're max level in a raiding guild.