The Sleeper to be awoken tonight in Rampage's final raid.

[Endonde]

My favorite part of that Cekenar fraps is where your guild members try to attack it into summoning range when you don't get FTE.

[Lazie]

It still to me leaves one thing out Daldaen. You put players in a box that they were never in in Velious. Live didn't change rules to suit raiding. The players used emergent gameplay to dictate the way they did things. If SoE didn't like what they were using they simply patched in things to stop it. The players then again would come up with new ways to do things.

That was the fun of classic that is missing in the raid scene here. Here you are in a box and you will get punished if you don't play inside that box. A lot of the problems we run into and the fighting with each other we have is the result of the rules and the box you have to play in. It's so easy for the game to turn into petitionquest and lawyerquest when the rules are their to petition and lawyer. Don't get me wrong I am not calling for a "Wild West". Just more classic solutions for these things.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It still to me leaves one thing out Daldaen. You put players in a box that they were never in in Velious. Live didn't change rules to suit raiding. The players used emergent gameplay to dictate the way they did things. If SoE didn't like what they were using they simply patched in things to stop it. The players then again would come up with new ways to do things.

That was the fun of classic that is missing in the raid scene here. Here you are in a box and you will get punished if you don't play inside that box.

The GMs banned players and disbanded guilds for questionable raiding tactics. See, e.g., Conquest and the Warder bridges.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The GMs banned players and disbanded guilds for questionable raiding tactics. See, e.g., Conquest and the Warder bridges.

Well in extreme cases of course they did. Especially when exploits were used to avoid the game mechanics of the encounters. They however did not "raid suspend". They did not keep a list of raid infractions and have them cumulatively adding up. They had the Play Nice Policy and they rarely stepped in unless things were being exploited or the Play Nice Policy was not being followed.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They however did not "raid suspend". They did not keep a list of raid infractions and have them cumulatively adding up. They had the Play Nice Policy and they rarely stepped in unless things were being exploited or the Play Nice Policy was not being followed.

True. I would like to have seen more outright bans, whether character or guilds, instead of suspensions-in-name-only over the last 5 years. Giving people something to lose instead of a time-out likely would have straightened things out.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True. I would like to have seen more outright bans, whether character or guilds, instead of suspensions-in-name-only over the last 5 years. Giving people something to lose instead of a time-out likely would have straightened things out.

I agree. For better or worse this would have kept petitions and lawyering from having a huge impact on this server. People would understand that when the GM's step in the hammer will be dropped.

[FatMice]

Lazie while I agree with you because we share the same perspective. You are barking up the wrong tree at this point. I wish we could write our perspective to our hearts content in order to change other peoples perspective or tell them our truths, but most are easily tricked by mindless posts and single minded interpretation all due to the shit flung around on these boards.

[Daldaen]

They didn't have a server of 1000s of level 60s though. That is the primary difference.

5-10 guilds on this server could, if given a day or two, kill a few NToV Dragons.

On live though, each server only had 2-3 capable of doing so and they would stick to certain factions often times, so 1 guild went giant and 1 went dragon for example. So they rarely competed for the same targets.

I agree that players figuring out the best way to do things is great, but the problem is so many are capable of killing raid targets on this server that it boils down to who is willing to spend the most time waiting around for a mob to spawn. That to me is dumb. That's why variance has always been dumb (and not classic).

The thing I miss the most about raiding on other EQ servers was my guilds would have raid nights, starting at 6:30 or 8:30, then we'd send some Rangers and Druids to random zones, see what is up, and then raid for 2-3 hours and camp for the night. Do this maybe 2-3-4 times a week, and be happy with ourselves.

I don't see that ever happening on P99 so long as guilds remain as huge as they are and people have such lust for their pixels.

But maybe eventually a few more guilds will follow in Rampage's footsteps and quit and the server may be left with a situation that allows that to occur.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They didn't have a server of 1000s of level 60s though. That is the primary difference.

5-10 guilds on this server could, if given a day or two, kill a few NToV Dragons.

On live though, each server only had 2-3 capable of doing so and they would stick to certain factions often times, so 1 guild went giant and 1 went dragon for example. So they rarely competed for the same targets.

I agree that players figuring out the best way to do things is great, but the problem is so many are capable of killing raid targets on this server that it boils down to who is willing to spend the most time waiting around for a mob to spawn. That to me is dumb. That's why variance has always been dumb (and not classic).

The thing I miss the most about raiding on other EQ servers was my guilds would have raid nights, starting at 6:30 or 8:30, then we'd send some Rangers and Druids to random zones, see what is up, and then raid for 2-3 hours and camp for the night. Do this maybe 2-3-4 times a week, and be happy with ourselves.

I don't see that ever happening on P99 so long as guilds remain as huge as they are and people have such lust for their pixels.

But maybe eventually a few more guilds will follow in Rampage's footsteps and quit and the server may be left with a situation that allows that to occur.

Yep. Can't agree with everything but respect your viewpoint. This server needed a split off a long time ago to another viable server. People just have the 1 option for the gameplay P99 presents. in 2001 they had a lot of servers.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They didn't have a server of 1000s of level 60s though. That is the primary difference.

5-10 guilds on this server could, if given a day or two, kill a few NToV Dragons.

On live though, each server only had 2-3 capable of doing so and they would stick to certain factions often times, so 1 guild went giant and 1 went dragon for example. So they rarely competed for the same targets.

I agree that players figuring out the best way to do things is great, but the problem is so many are capable of killing raid targets on this server that it boils down to who is willing to spend the most time waiting around for a mob to spawn. That to me is dumb. That's why variance has always been dumb (and not classic).

The thing I miss the most about raiding on other EQ servers was my guilds would have raid nights, starting at 6:30 or 8:30, then we'd send some Rangers and Druids to random zones, see what is up, and then raid for 2-3 hours and camp for the night. Do this maybe 2-3-4 times a week, and be happy with ourselves.

I don't see that ever happening on P99 so long as guilds remain as huge as they are and people have such lust for their pixels.

But maybe eventually a few more guilds will follow in Rampage's footsteps and quit and the server may be left with a situation that allows that to occur.

Ah I remember the days of running around for a few minutes on my druid between classes/work checking various zones to see what dragons/bosses to add to the MotD for that evening's raid time.

Also, there were servers that had geographically distinct populations that had little cross-over with other time zones or interaction with other guilds. A lot of US-based guilds got scraps on patch day by the time US Primetime came around due to the Asian/Pacific/Australian guilds sweeping in and getting the good stuff.