duelwield question

[freakyuno]

Originally Posted by Shaggy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DW being a "proc" off your main hand is how the game used to work till around PoP.

Back then, a very fast wep in main, and a slow high dmg in offhand was the way to go.


Dmg bonus is based off your lvl for 1h weps... So all 1h weps will be the same dmg bonus for you.. At least , that's how its always worked on live.

I thought thats the way it worked, back in the day, but couldn't find any information about it being that way. I swore I remembered it being widely accepted though.

As far as the wurmslayer example, I believe what may have been happening is a proc off a main hand swing triggers the Dual Wield, then an offhand double attack would cause two swings.

[Pescador]

DW being a "proc" off your main hand is how the game used to work till around PoP.

False. Refer to the above example of a ranger using wurmslayer / lupine dagger. You could get the dagger to swing twice before the wurmslayer would swing a second time, so clearly the offhand isn't a proc.

[Shaggy]

In 1999 up till 03ish , that is spot on to how it worked... I was there, and parsing , thanks tho!

[Mardur]

Originally Posted by Shaggy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In 1999 up till 03ish , that is spot on to how it worked... I was there, and parsing , thanks tho!

Your parser was terrible.

[Pescador]

How do you explain all the dual weilders with wurmslayer + a fast weapon who saw more than 1 offhand swing between mainhand swings?

How do you explain people putting a lightstone in their mainhand so it won't swing but still getting swings in their offhand?

[From 2001] "Off hand swings are on an independant timer not on the same on as your primary. To try it give a high level warrior a fast weapon for off hand and a really slow one for primary. Every so often he will end up swinging the off hand weapon a couple times in between primary swings."

[From 2002]: "Yup. I'm still amazed that this rumor is hanging around. How often your Secondary weapon swings has NOTHING to do with your Primary's delay. Do a test yourself if you really want to. Used to use a Wurmslayer/Lupine Dagger, and I can tell you without a doubt that the Lupine was frequently getting in twice as many hits as the Wurmslayer (and yes, I took Double Attack into account, had Misses turned on). "

Finally, I was playing at that time, too, and as a bard, I used a crystallized sword (11/38) and a dragoon dirk for a long time, and I distinctly remember seeing two pierces in between slashing attacks (I never turned off misses) many times. And this was early in the game's existence, too, definitely before 2003.

I think it was just a popular rumor.

EDIT: from monkly business, in Jan 2002:


Double Attack Percentage = (Skill Level plus Level ) / 500

Dual Wield Percentage = [ ( (Level * 7 plus 5) plus Level ) / 400 ] (DW caps at 252 so max DW Percentage is .63)

Damage Bonus (Primary Hand only) = ( Level - 25 ) / 3

Primary Modal = ( Weapon Damage * 2 ) Damage Bonus

Primary Hand Comparable Modal = Primary Modal / Weapon Delay

Off Hand Comparable Modal = Primary Modal / Weapon Delay * Dual Wield Percentage

More proof that offhand was independent of primary hand early in the game's history

[freakyuno]

Originally Posted by Pescador [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[From 2001] "Off hand swings are on an independant timer not on the same on as your primary. To try it give a high level warrior a fast weapon for off hand and a really slow one for primary. Every so often he will end up swinging the off hand weapon a couple times in between primary swings."

[From 2002]: "Yup. I'm still amazed that this rumor is hanging around. How often your Secondary weapon swings has NOTHING to do with your Primary's delay. Do a test yourself if you really want to. Used to use a Wurmslayer/Lupine Dagger, and I can tell you without a doubt that the Lupine was frequently getting in twice as many hits as the Wurmslayer (and yes, I took Double Attack into account, had Misses turned on). "

I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I really "don't know" the answer. I know how I remember it being discussed openly in the game every time this question would come up. But just to point out, this information is 2 years newer than the game release - and a lot of us started playing in beta in 98. It's very possible it WAS both ways and not one or the other.

[Rejuvenation]

Originally Posted by freakyuno [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I really "don't know" the answer. I know how I remember it being discussed openly in the game every time this question would come up. But just to point out, this information is 2 years newer than the game release - and a lot of us started playing in beta in 98. It's very possible it WAS both ways and not one or the other.

Yea, but it is extremely unlikely that they would change a mechanic as drastic as Dual Wield so late. This was probably stock. When the game was released, there weren't very good log parsers available...It is not a stretch to say that it took a year or two to get one produced that was able to evaluate melee skills accurately.

Dual Wield is independent of the primary weapon...And it will never be different on this client...

When Damage bonus is implemented, you want the fastest weapon possible (as long as the ratio isnt complete garbage) in mainhand, and the best ratio in offhand.

BUT NOW, Best ratio mainhand, next best, offhand.

[Bubbles]

Every time someone asks this question, i click on the thread, excited to finally (i never really played a melee seriously, after all) understand the answer to the "which weapon goes where" question and understand why once and for all.

And i always leave the damn thread understanding even less the mechanics and the answer to the question than i did when i first started reading it.

sigh.

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Rejuvenation [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BUT NOW, Best ratio mainhand, next best, offhand.

WHY ARE YOU SAYING THIS. DAMAGE BONUS IS CLEARLY IMPLEMENTED. PEOPLE DO MUCH MORE THAN 2X WEAPON DAMAGE PER SWING.

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WHY ARE YOU SAYING THIS. DAMAGE BONUS IS CLEARLY IMPLEMENTED. PEOPLE DO MUCH MORE THAN 2X WEAPON DAMAGE PER SWING.

DMG bonus is not in game, or you wouldn't be seeing people hitting for 1's.

People hit 2x as hard because dmg is calculated by some formula ( dont ask im fuckawful at math) including wpn dmg wpn skill and attk, When a melee gets a str buff attk goes up max hit goes up BUT you can still land a min hit of 1. Hence no bonus.