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[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by ronasch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

basically what your talking about is pooling enough money together to draw an ISP to your area. We need government to be the middle man? I think not. Government is corrupt that's why we're 19 trillion dollars in debt. If an ISP believes its profitable to provide your area service then they will make the investment. If not, oh well MOVE.

Do you understand what the internet is, how it works and how it benefits society as a whole (not just the individual). We wouldn't have the internet at all if it weren't for government. Government is a necessary evil my friend.

[ronasch]

[QUOTE=maskedmelon;2041368]Do you understand what the internet is, how it works and how it benefits society as a whole (not just the individual). We wouldn't have the internet at all if it weren't for government. Government is a necessary evil my friend.[/QUOTE

Government funded space flight too, does that mean the tax payer owes u a shuttle to Mars. Internet is a luxury and just because it provides u with entertainment, comfort, and enjoyment doesn't mean I should have to pay higher taxes so those who can't afford it have those same luxuries. Just because some people are of an opinion that something benefits society doesn't mean the heavy hand of government should make it so

[Ele]

Originally Posted by ronasch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Government funded space flight too, does that mean the tax payer owes u a shuttle to Mars. Internet is a luxury and just because it provides u with entertainment, comfort, and enjoyment doesn't mean I should have to pay higher taxes so those who can't afford it have those same luxuries. Just because some people are of an opinion that something benefits society doesn't mean the heavy hand of government should make it so

What does space flight have to do with any of this?

Are roads a luxury? Phone service? Clean water service? Sewer service? Electricity service? Natural gas service? Heating oil/gas service? Police? Firefighters? EMS?

The Internet is no longer a "luxury" as it was in 1996 when you got your AOL cd and set up your Geocities page.

It is largest channel of commerce in modern society. Not to mention the impact on education, the sciences, financial markets, and international commerce/relations.

[Kevris]

[QUOTE=ronasch;2041405]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you understand what the internet is, how it works and how it benefits society as a whole (not just the individual). We wouldn't have the internet at all if it weren't for government. Government is a necessary evil my friend.[/QUOTE

Government funded space flight too, does that mean the tax payer owes u a shuttle to Mars. Internet is a luxury and just because it provides u with entertainment, comfort, and enjoyment doesn't mean I should have to pay higher taxes so those who can't afford it have those same luxuries. Just because some people are of an opinion that something benefits society doesn't mean the heavy hand of government should make it so

You stated earlier that you lived in a small town, with one large store (Walmart).

You should probably read a little bit about the fees associated with every broadband bill; those fees are there because the ISP's and Telco's are required to bring broadband to rural locations.

Based on the statement that you live in a rural area, it would not be a huge stretch for one to assume you have directly benefited from those fees and it is the people living in large metropolitan areas who have funded your internet service.

Edit: And you know what? I'm OK with subsidizing your internet. I believe that the benefit to children in your area is well worth a few cents added to my broadband bill to ensure they have equal access to the Internet and all of the associated educational resources that are included with that access.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by ronasch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Government funded space flight too, does that mean the tax payer owes u a shuttle to Mars.

Of course not and that is not at all what I am suggesting. However without government funding space technologies would not be where they are at present because they have historically lacked a clear return on investment. They same is true for certain areas of medical research, but that does not mean government should provide healthcare for individuals. The internet is the national highway system, except more vitally important to society. It is not just the individual who benefits from broad deployment of web resources.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by ronasch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

basically what your talking about is pooling enough money together to draw an ISP to your area. We need government to be the middle man? I think not. Government is corrupt that's why we're 19 trillion dollars in debt. If an ISP believes its profitable to provide your area service then they will make the investment. If not, oh well MOVE.

If we can even call that a solution, your solution is not based in reality. We are not starting from square one and have to deal with the issues as they currently exist and moving forward from there.

I do appreciate voting with your wallet/feet, but it is not at all pragmatic or reasonable in many situations. This is not the frontier days where you can just pick up your wagon, burn your house down for the nails, and go West for some free land. Today, much like an individual's vote doesn't statistically matter on election day, neither does you cancelling Internet service from Comcast, boycotting Wal-Mart, gasoline for a day, etc. There is someone else on either side of you that does not care and will continue living their life and fill the spot you left empty (mostly because there are limited options for these types of services).

Additionally, if everyone moved that wanted decent high speed internet, eventually we would all be coalesced into several dense urban metroplexes as they are the most economically viable locations for these ISPs to service due to population density versus coverage area. There is a reason phone bills have a universal access fee (tax) so that phone companies would be required to provide phone service to rural/remote locations even when not economically viable to the company.

You suggest that people draw private ISPs to their towns, but is a town of 1000 people really supposed to throw $1000 each into a pool to entice a brand new ISP to come to town and build out a cable/fiber network that then hooks into a major Internet backbone in the metroplex 100 miles away? No business in their right mind is touching that for $1 million dollars. Much less how each one of those people has $1000 to spend on building out Internet infrastructure to their town. Instead, a number of towns are building out their own networks through the use of municipal bonds and funds and making them utilities where people can purchase Internet service through the municipality (local government doing something good?). In the process of doing this, these towns/municipalities are also being sued/lobbied against by companies like Comcast/ATT/Verizon for daring to compete with them.


Regarding your general complaint about corruption, I don't think anyone here will disagree with you that corruption is legitimized and legalized in our current public and private sectors and that it is a huge problem that needs to be rooted out of the system. I don't know what being 19 trillion in debt has to do with Net Neutrality though. You keep running on tangents about "government = bad" without addressing or arguing the basic concept Net Neutrality.

[ronasch]

You people keep telling me because it was government funded everyone should have access, I philosophically disagree. The roads highways bridges in this country are funded by government, some people walk, bike, and or drive these roads, highways, bridges that are government funded so since the walker/bicycler who cannot afford to purchase a car to go as fast as those who can purchase a car be given a car by government because it's "beneficial."
This constant DRONE of how the Internet "benefits society" grows old. Tell that to the millions of people that had there lives destroyed by identity theft, or the little girl who committed suicide because every time she opened her email some asshole kid at school is calling her fat and ugly. A blanket statement of benefits society thus it should be so is tunnel vision, and I'm not saying the Internet doesn't have its positives cause it does. My point is I know it can be done w/o government involvement. Yes might it take longer and require some of the citizenry to get off their asses sure, but in the end you will not only have a better product, but a more accountable company providing you service. Your need to steal the labor (tax) of others to achieve your access to the Internet is fundamentally destructive in and of itself.

[Kevris]

Originally Posted by ronasch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You people keep telling me because it was government funded everyone should have access, I philosophically disagree. The roads highways bridges in this country are funded by government, some people walk, bike, and or drive these roads, highways, bridges that are government funded so since the walker/bicycler who cannot afford to purchase a car to go as fast as those who can purchase a car be given a car by government because it's "beneficial."
This constant DRONE of how the Internet "benefits society" grows old. Tell that to the millions of people that had there lives destroyed by identity theft, or the little girl who committed suicide because every time she opened her email some asshole kid at school is calling her fat and ugly. A blanket statement of benefits society thus it should be so is tunnel vision, and I'm not saying the Internet doesn't have its positives cause it does. My point is I know it can be done w/o government involvement. Yes might it take longer and require some of the citizenry to get off their asses sure, but in the end you will not only have a better product, but a more accountable company providing you service. Your need to steal the labor (tax) of others to achieve your access to the Internet is fundamentally destructive in and of itself.

What part of what you just said outlines a clear path to wide-spread broadband access without government intervention?


And as to the benefit of the internet ... let's take the same wrong-headed approach to other utilities: Electricity is a benefit? Tell that to the people who's homes are destroyed by fires caused by downed power lines or any other kind of electrical accident, or the thousands of children killed every year when they stick something into an electrical socket. Water is a benefit? Tell that to the millions of people who's property is destroyed by flooding from broken water pipes every year. Roads are a benefit? Tell that to the millions of people who die in car accidents every year, many of which aren't even in a car. You can do that nonsensical OHH ITS SO BAD stuff with anything.

How can you fail to see that having, literally, THE SUM OF ALL HUMAN KNOWLEDGE available to anyone with an internet connection is a huge benefit to society!?

[ronasch]

Originally Posted by Kevris [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What part of what you just said outlines a clear path to wide-spread broadband access without government intervention?


And as to the benefit of the internet ... let's take the same wrong-headed approach to other utilities: Electricity is a benefit? Tell that to the people who's homes are destroyed by fires caused by downed power lines or any other kind of electrical accident, or the thousands of children killed every year when they stick something into an electrical socket. Water is a benefit? Tell that to the millions of people who's property is destroyed by flooding from broken water pipes every year. Roads are a benefit? Tell that to the millions of people who die in car accidents every year, many of which aren't even in a car. You can do that nonsensical OHH ITS SO BAD stuff with anything.

How can you fail to see that having, literally, THE SUM OF ALL HUMAN KNOWLEDGE available to anyone with an internet connection is a huge benefit to society!?

Never said it wasn't beneficial. I take the same approach with the "Internet" as I do Electricity, water, insert anything u want. If YOU can't afford it, DON'T tax ME to get it. Plain and simple.

Your wants/needs don't outweigh my Liberty. Sorry I don't wanna pay for your electricity, water, telephone, or Internet.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by ronasch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never said it wasn't beneficial. I take the same approach with the "Internet" as I do Electricity, water, insert anything u want. If YOU can't afford it, DON'T tax ME to get it. Plain and simple.

Your wants/needs don't outweigh my Liberty. Sorry I don't wanna pay for your electricity, water, telephone, or Internet.

Please explain what any of that has to do with Net Neutrality.