Why is boxing and live frowned upon?

[ClubnRed]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL. The classic playerbase was mostly gone before PoP. Classic EQ was indeed killed by the transformation of the game. SOE made more money off the new audience, because there were more of them, but that doesn't change the fact that classic EQ was killed off to make that money. Your population numbers don't counter anything except your implied strawman.

Also, claiming Velious is somehow part of :classic: seems highly incorrect to me. Velious clear emphasis on the high-level raid game drove off many players who had merely been made uncomfortable by Kunark, Luclin convinced those that checked back not to return.

PoP should have showed the die-hards who had not adapted to the NewOrder[tm] that they were being more than a little foolish hanging around hoping that SOE might return to the original Vision[tm]. But instead they rose up agitating mercilessly and convinced SOE to release LoY, which was not well received by the then current playbase because there just weren't enough fans of the classic Vision[tm] left to support an expansion that didn't cater explicitly to high-end raiders and their wannabe fans.

Classic EQ was mortally wounded by Velious, Luclin poisoned on the dying beast to hasten its demise, and PoP laughed at it, poured gasoline over it, set it afire, and toasted marshmallows over the merrily blazing corpse.

Sorry to bust your bubble but.. classic Everquest is, was and STILL will always be considered up to velious. After the expac after velious landed, it was NOT considered classic because of how drastic the game changed in so many ways.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by ClubnRed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry to bust your bubble but.. classic Everquest is, was and STILL will always be considered up to velious. After the expac after velious landed, it was NOT considered classic because of how drastic the game changed in so many ways.

By the people that jumped on the twisted game and encouraged SOE to twist it further, yes. But, not by the folks who loved the original game. Velious is more twisted from the original game than Luclin was from Velious. You usurpers can make all the noise you want, I'm sure it'll make you feel better to stand around and shout about it, but Velious ain't classic.

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by jcr4990 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except for that tiny inconvenient fact that EQ Live's subscription numbers continued to rise LONG after these mechanics that "killed EQ" like PoK books and instances came into being. Most P99 players either don't seem to know this or they just play dumb to suit their agenda. But contrary to popular belief around here EQ was very much alive and thriving throughout PoP and even GoD. Subscription numbers didn't start to really fall off til after OoW. The number of people that got their panties in a bunch about cats on the moon and instanced raids is hardly a drop in the bucket. You'd never know that listening to people on these forums though oddly enough :P

I didn't say EQ died, I said the sense of community died. When people look back fondly on Classic EQ, it's the community that they are missing that newer MMOs lack.

That includes everything that goes into it good and bad - camp stealing, EC trading, forum questing, talking to group mates, etc.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say EQ died, I said the sense of community died. When people look back fondly on Classic EQ, it's the community that they are missing that newer MMOs lack.

That includes everything that goes into it good and bad - camp stealing, EC trading, forum questing, talking to group mates, etc.

That's amusing from someone in a guild that prides itself on a circlejerk and patting each other on the back for zerging and downing Trak in 5 seconds. Surely you guys have a great sense of community spirit, at least under your guild tag?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say EQ died, I said the sense of community died. When people look back fondly on Classic EQ, it's the community that they are missing that newer MMOs lack.

That includes everything that goes into it good and bad - camp stealing, EC trading, forum questing, talking to group mates, etc.

Cucumbers made an exasperated post a couple months ago about community. Community isn't some deep thing, it can be as simple as having to ask someone for a port, or if they can help you locate your corpse, or when you give a player a buff that lasts not for hours, but just for the next half hour.

Little things that kept us in touch in order for the game to be played better. The need for those things died as port books entered the game, and some ridiculous long last buffs like KEI.

This is also the argument against boxing. Boixing decreases the need for that kind of need for other people.

And the bazaar killed it too. Quick little chats you have with a seller = community. Buying off an afk bot = none.

It is a complicated issue but wanted to chime in. imo, part of why classic works is, you kind of have to deal with people to play the game except for a few classes. I played swtor a few years ago, and got max level and good gear w/o ever interacting with anyone. classic eq makes that very hard, and kind of stupid, to play that way. It makes you have little contacts with people. And that's community. O know when I give someone a clarity, I'm giving them a rather short buff. Not something that will last 2 hours. I know when I get a sow, same thing. It keeps us always making contact as part of the game.

And that need to stay in touch, however trivial begins at the start. It's baked into the classic cake. my view.

[myriverse]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cucumbers made an exasperated post a couple months ago about community. Community isn't some deep thing, it can be as simple as having to ask someone for a port, or if they can help you locate your corpse, or when you give a player a buff that lasts not for hours, but just for the next half hour.

Little things that kept us in touch in order for the game to be played better. The need for those things died as port books entered the game, and some ridiculous long last buffs like KEI.

This is also the argument against boxing. Boixing decreases the need for that kind of need for other people.

And the bazaar killed it too. Quick little chats you have with a seller = community. Buying off an afk bot = none.

It is a complicated issue but wanted to chime in. imo, part of why classic works is, you kind of have to deal with people to play the game except for a few classes. I played swtor a few years ago, and got max level and good gear w/o ever interacting with anyone. classic eq makes that very hard, and kind of stupid, to play that way. It makes you have little contacts with people. And that's community. O know when I give someone a clarity, I'm giving them a rather short buff. Not something that will last 2 hours. I know when I get a sow, same thing. It keeps us always making contact as part of the game.

And that need to stay in touch, however trivial begins at the start. It's baked into the classic cake. my view.

"Community" died before the port books, and this was the reason the port books started in the first place. Fewer and fewer people were usually in bind areas, and people needed travel.

And it was pretty much the same in EC tunnel with auctions.

[mr_jon3s]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Community is what actually set classic EQ apart from newer MMOs, not mechanics.

Boxing, instancing, the Bazaar, etc all pretty much killed it.

Na the game got killed because it is old. Instances helped a lot and made it so you didn't have to fight for those raid pixels, and the bazaar increased trade. I never understood the bazaar hate because people still tunnelquested in the bazaar. Planes of power was the peak. Once you hit the peak its all down hill from there.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by mr_jon3s [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Na the game got killed because it is old. Instances helped a lot and made it so you didn't have to fight for those raid pixels, and the bazaar increased trade. I never understood the bazaar hate because people still tunnelquested in the bazaar. Planes of power was the peak. Once you hit the peak its all down hill from there.

I've been in this debate a few times over the past few months on the live forums leading up to the completely failed launch of the shitshow that is the latest round of progression servers.

Instancing did not kill Everquest. The people that were "harmed" by instancing were either RMT, who make money off of scarcity and the ability to deny access to content to others, and trolls who get off on taking from other players but don't want to play a real PvP game like Ultima Online (at the time).

Instancing did not make the encounters easier. It did not change the amount of hitpoints targets had. It just meant that you didn't have to deal with getting griefed (as anyone who has been a few guilds behind the top in PoP will tell you, people killing triggers at 2am so your guild couldn't flag was ridiculous).

The "evidence" cited by many people who think instancing ruined the game is dubious at best. They claim that EQ subs dropped off a lot when instancing was released. This is kinda true, but it ignores a lot of other things that were going on at the time. Many mechanical updates were made to the game around the release of GoD that made it impossible to play on many older computer. Some people were faced with upgrades of hundreds of dollars or buying a whole new computer in order to continue to play. Also, many of the mechanical changes completely broke many zones. There were screen shots of my guilds main tank sitting in Fire with literally every monster in field two on him, but not able to get to him because they had fallen below the world.

There was also the launch of the WoW beta, which took many people from my guild and most of my RL friends that played EQ. This was, I think, the biggest killer to EQ. Althought WoW wouldn't launch officially for another 9 months or so, new people were being added to the beta every couple of weeks it seemed, which took a huge chunk out of EQ. It's worth noting that many of my friends cited instancing as a top 5 reason they picked WoW over EQ.

I never understood why people thought Bazaar was such a bad thing. It made trading easier. You could still negotiate with traders, i often did.

[jcr4990]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've been in this debate a few times over the past few months on the live forums leading up to the completely failed launch of the shitshow that is the latest round of progression servers.

Instancing did not kill Everquest. The people that were "harmed" by instancing were either RMT, who make money off of scarcity and the ability to deny access to content to others, and trolls who get off on taking from other players but don't want to play a real PvP game like Ultima Online (at the time).

Instancing did not make the encounters easier. It did not change the amount of hitpoints targets had. It just meant that you didn't have to deal with getting griefed (as anyone who has been a few guilds behind the top in PoP will tell you, people killing triggers at 2am so your guild couldn't flag was ridiculous).

The "evidence" cited by many people who think instancing ruined the game is dubious at best. They claim that EQ subs dropped off a lot when instancing was released. This is kinda true, but it ignores a lot of other things that were going on at the time. Many mechanical updates were made to the game around the release of GoD that made it impossible to play on many older computer. Some people were faced with upgrades of hundreds of dollars or buying a whole new computer in order to continue to play. Also, many of the mechanical changes completely broke many zones. There were screen shots of my guilds main tank sitting in Fire with literally every monster in field two on him, but not able to get to him because they had fallen below the world.

There was also the launch of the WoW beta, which took many people from my guild and most of my RL friends that played EQ. This was, I think, the biggest killer to EQ. Althought WoW wouldn't launch officially for another 9 months or so, new people were being added to the beta every couple of weeks it seemed, which took a huge chunk out of EQ. It's worth noting that many of my friends cited instancing as a top 5 reason they picked WoW over EQ.

I never understood why people thought Bazaar was such a bad thing. It made trading easier. You could still negotiate with traders, i often did.

Boom. Hit the nail on the head. EQ was awesome in PoP. Could argue it fell off from there but I even enjoyed OoW a lot. After that I kinda stopped enjoying it very much and quit around Prophecy of Ro. People point fingers at bazaar and pok books and instancing. What really "killed EQ" is WoW. (Which btw is a game with lots of instances and an even easier version of the bazaar)

[iruinedyourday]

LIES