Upcoming change to class epics

[ergo]

What I dont understand is why blue is being messed with because of the actions of 500 or so on red? They have a rogue problem on pvp, deal with it on pvp... the popular server, blue is not broken.

Dont fix it.

[Kutsumo]

Hey guys, just want to point out a minor detail that you seem to be missing. Where did Nilbog say that this change is about red or rogue epics? He explained himself very clearly. At least try to dispute his actual reasoning rather than stringing up your favorite straw man.

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is inconsistent research regarding which epics required level requirements to obtain. Several couldn't be completed until 46 or higher due to level checks on quests or certain steps involving planar zones. It has been noted by the original developers that epic items were intended only for those of higher levels. Additionally, we feel that acquiring an epic weapon should only be possible when a player has become powerful enough to cross interplanar portals. Therefore, we are adding a level requirement of 46 to equip all epic items.

[ergo]

Originally Posted by Kutsumo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey guys, just want to point out a minor detail that you seem to be missing. Where did Nilbog say that this change is about red or rogue epics? He explained himself very clearly. At least try to dispute his actual reasoning rather than stringing up your favorite straw man.

You would be right except:

There is inconsistent research regarding which epics required level requirements to obtain.

This specifically states they have no idea and are making shit up, years into the game after allowing it.

Please explain, with real reasoning, how a lv 1-45 cleric holding an epic harms anyone at all? It doesn't harm anyone. Shaman epic? Same thing cant click it. Neither are worth a crap until they are be clicked, save for stats.

Now which epic is both easily obtained and usable 100%? Rogue. It isn't hard to figure out. Which server would have the most impact? Red. Cause a rogue backstabbing for 140+ at under lv 20 could cause serious problems.

On blue? Worst case they solo, best case they group and their groups LOVE an epic rogue dpsing for them.

So, you are right, they didn't SAY it was to counter the pvp issue, but that is what it does, in action. Beyond the look of epics on sub 46 chars, it does nothing to harm the game.


Also the cleric epic does not require planar travel - at all - and thus this other 'reason' he stated is both irrelevant and moot.

Next bad argument please.

[Kutsumo]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You would be right except:



This specifically states they have no idea and are making shit up, years into the game after allowing it.

Please explain, with real reasoning, how a lv 1-45 cleric holding an epic harms anyone at all? It doesn't harm anyone. Shaman epic? Same thing cant click it. Neither are worth a crap until they are be clicked, save for stats.

Now which epic is both easily obtained and usable 100%? Rogue. It isn't hard to figure out. Which server would have the most impact? Red. Cause a rogue backstabbing for 140+ at under lv 20 could cause serious problems.

On blue? Worst case they solo, best case they group and their groups LOVE an epic rogue dpsing for them.

So, you are right, they didn't SAY it was to counter the pvp issue, but that is what it does, in action. Beyond the look of epics on sub 46 chars, it does nothing to harm the game.

Of course this change effects the rogue epic more than other epics - it's the easiest to MQ at a low level and is very impactful at a low level. However, to infer that the rogue epic was their motivation for this change is pointless speculation since it has nothing to do with the stated reasoning.

I do understand why you're focusing on this, and especially on the least impactful pre 50 epic (clr). It makes for an argument that you feel you can win. Do you understand what a straw man argument is? If not, look at what you're doing and compare it to the definition.

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also the cleric epic does not require planar travel - at all - and thus this other 'reason' he stated is both irrelevant and moot.

Next bad argument please.

He didn't say that all epics require planar travel and therefore you should be at planar level. Please try reading this again.

Additionally, we feel that acquiring an epic weapon should only be possible when a player has become powerful enough to cross interplanar portals.

[ergo]

No I just dont like bad arguments. You were inferring that his opinion was irrelevant based on how long the current account has existed.

That is both shitty logic and has no baring on anything.

[ergo]

Exactly, its all their opinion and for some reason that opinion has not been a priority until velious was released. There is no need to change it. Why ruin the fun?

Either they need to 100% do away with MQing, and add item level requirements to ALL items of significant power, or they need leave epics alone and address the only real problem to game play that anyone says is an issue - rogues on red.

This is not a problem on blue.

[Kutsumo]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly, its all their opinion and for some reason that opinion has not been a priority until velious was released. There is no need to change it. Why ruin the fun?

There is a list of reasons why they chose to make this change, and not all of them are based on opinion. In fact, only one of the four points could be construed as the opinion of P99 staff. It's rather convenient to focus on only that one, isn't it?

Borrowing this from another poster who already made this point earlier in the thread...

[1]There is inconsistent research regarding which epics required level requirements to obtain.
[2]Several couldn't be completed until 46 or higher due to level checks on quests or certain steps involving planar zones.
[3] It has been noted by the original developers that epic items were intended only for those of higher levels.
[4]Additionally, we feel that acquiring an epic weapon should only be possible when a player has become powerful enough to cross interplanar portals.
[Conclusion] Therefore, we are adding a level requirement of 46 to equip all epic items.

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Either they need to 100% do away with MQing, and add item level requirements to ALL items of significant power, or they need leave epics alone and address the only real problem to game play that anyone says is an issue - rogues on red.

This is not a problem on blue.

That whole "you need to do it all or nothing" (in regard to nerfing all MQs and all powerful items) is another fallacious argument on your part. No, they don't need to do all or nothing - they can do specifically what was stated for the reasons stated. Again, you're pinning this on a "rogues on red" issue when the staff hasn't stated that as a reason. You can assume and project and guess all you want, but it's all just speculation, and the actual reasons are hard to dispute - evidenced by your avoiding those points and the straw man raids.

[ergo]

If they want to be fair... they should nerf all or nothing. Because I am sure the creators of EQ never intended a sub level 50 to be wearing a fungi tunic.

Also an opinion is not fallacious. It is my opinion they should nerf it all or nothing. You can say my reasoning is fallacious, but holding an opinion is not.

[4]Additionally, we feel that acquiring an epic weapon should only be possible when a player has become powerful enough to cross interplanar portals.

Opinion.

Several couldn't be completed until 46 or higher due to level checks on quests or certain steps involving planar zones.

fact but they are not sure which are and which arent. Nerfing MQing without proper knowledge is not something that should be done lightly when they cant even fix shrink in dungeons when myself and others have shown direct evidence it should.

There is inconsistent research regarding which epics required level requirements to obtain.

Fact, they dont know, they arent sure, so after years of allowing the MQ and equipping of rogue, cleric, sham and monk epics, suddenly its going away.


Their conclusion is based on inconsistent research by their own standards, so why make a decision contrary to how the server has been working (see popular) and fun just because of their ignorance? Either they are withholding information or their true reasons, or their reasons are not based on 'classic' or how things were, its something else.


Can someone give me any real reason to do this that has nothing to do with pvp?

[Ele]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can someone give me any real reason to do this that has nothing to do with pvp?

Because it is their server and they want to do it.

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because it is their server and they want to do it.

I have no idea why this is so hard for people to understand. This is Rogeans/Nilbogs project, and when it comes down to it, they can do whatever they want. Rogean can pull the plug tomorrow and he doesn't have to give a reason why. Just stop complaining and enjoy the ride.