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[freakyuno]

Originally Posted by Yak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Before going through all this effort, why not start a poll and see how many people would be interested? To be honest, i think you would be lucky to get over 10 dedicated players.

We'll like I said before. My goal was not to try to prove or determine, or create a "cause" for a pvp server. Only provide the means to get one, if the developers thought it was in their best interest.

[karsten]

I'd hop over to the pvp server in a heartbeat, provided we can figure out a way to keep people from warriortracking and such!

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lastly, the devs here are likely very hesitant to just give out the source for p99 to another server. ... But if they just give away their source it defeats the purpose of all of their hard work, and disincentivizes others from working hard too.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but this, sir, is grade-A bullshit.

1 - Giving it away absolutely would not defeat the purpose of their hard work: P99 would still be the only classic server hitting 800 people every night, and would still be the only server with a dedicated GM and dev staff that actually changes and updates things as they come up. It would always be head-and-shoulders above imitators in both quantity of players and quality of play experience.

2 - It disincentivizes others from working hard? Are you serious? Imagine if Leibniz and Newton had said "no, go invent your own damn calculus, moochers!"

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1 - Giving it away absolutely would not defeat the purpose of their hard work: P99 would still be the only classic server hitting 800 people every night, and would still be the only server with a dedicated GM and dev staff that actually changes and updates things as they come up. It would always be head-and-shoulders above imitators in both quantity of players and quality of play experience.

2 - It disincentivizes others from working hard? Are you serious? Imagine if Leibniz and Newton had said "no, go invent your own damn calculus, moochers!"

I'm not sure what was so unreasonable about what I said. P99 is really the only server of remotely acceptable quality for anyone who's ever actually played the real game. The other servers are clunky and poorly coded with tons of obvious bugs. Basically giving out the source rewards people who don't work hard and makes their servers more popular than they should be, in relation to the amount of effort they put in.

As for the second point -- have you ever heard of patent laws? The whole point of measures like those is to increase competition and encourage innovation. In the case of P99, not giving out the source is a good policy because it means devs of other servers are forced to come up with fixes of their own rather than waiting on nilbog to do it for them eventually.

I don't think mathematical discoveries are really very analogous to the kinds of discoveries we have patents for (like technology, medicine, etc.), mostly because mathematicians tend to be rewarded more for just making the discoveries, as opposed to the profits they would earn from having a monopoly on who can use those discoveries. Maybe this isn't a really convincing argument. Whatever.

edit: also, I think it was nice of the OP to offer the resources for a pvp server. It's not his fault that he isn't 100% aware of every issue with starting such a server.

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure what was so unreasonable about what I said.

I just don't think you're giving very serious thought to what you're saying:

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 is really the only server of remotely acceptable quality for anyone who's ever actually played the real game. The other servers are clunky and poorly coded with tons of obvious bugs. Basically giving out the source rewards people who don't work hard and makes their servers more popular than they should be, in relation to the amount of effort they put in.

Your whole preconception of how popular a server "should be" aside, I fail to see how running a P99 clone could be construed as any kind of reward. Do you really think a significant chunk of Project 1999 players would jump ship to a server that's always going to be at least a day behind? And even then, what does the person running the clone server have to gain from that? More whining petitions? Woo.

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for the second point -- have you ever heard of patent laws? The whole point of measures like those is to increase competition and encourage innovation. In the case of P99, not giving out the source is a good policy because it means devs of other servers are forced to come up with fixes of their own rather than waiting on nilbog to do it for them eventually.

You're right that patents were created to increase competition and innovation, but what you're missing is that they do that by forcing people to publicly document and disclose the invention being patented. We have patents because innovation and competition are severely stifled when inventions and solutions to problems are kept strictly secret.

Take, for example "devs of other servers are forced to come up with fixes of their own rather than waiting on nilbog to do it for them eventually," and your anecdote about instruments not working. P99 has figured out how to fix that. Other servers haven't. What is gained by forcing the other servers' devs to figure out their own fix?

Or, more simply, what part of the invention of the wheel is so important that you think it's good to make everyone do it for themselves?

tl;dr I think P99 would do well to go (partially?) open-source

[Yak]

I highly doubt that they will do this for the following reasons. I think it's great for your generosity though.

1. It's time consuming enough to maintain one server code, gm requests etc.

2. It would take away from the population of the current server. This would hurt both servers and not be good for the community.

3. I don't you understand what you are asking, it would be a lot of work for Nilog and Rogean to add another server.

4. You are in the minority that wants a PVP Classic server.

5. Since you don't want to maintain and do this yourself, what would make you think that Rogean and Nolog would want to do this?

6. Why not start your own PVP server?

7. They are busy getting Kunark ready.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Yak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nilog ... Nolog

These are variations of my name I haven't seen before. nilborg and niblig are the most common.

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tl;dr I think P99 would do well to go (partially?) open-source

EQEMU is open source. That's as partial as it's going to get. If someone wants to help us, they can download from the public, open-source eqemu repositories and make submissions.

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQEMU is open source. That's as partial as it's going to get. If someone wants to help us, they can download from the public, open-source eqemu repositories and make submissions.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation, but wouldn't that be essentially starting from scratch? It seems like it would take a titanic effort (roughly equal to all the work already done on P99) to make any helpful contribution.

But then I'm no coder, so it's not like I can pledge I'd give you any help even if you did go open-source.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

niblig

Hey, that's MY line!! :P

[Rogean]

Hosting a pvp server has never been about the resources. We have plenty of that and the ability to get more as needed.

Why wouldn't we host it on our own hardware if we wanted to run one?