An open letter from <Forsaken>

[Kaezyr D`Shiv]

I would like to say that being completely unbiased in any of this, I can see where the confusion in all of this stems from. The following opinion is from someone who had not yet raided on project 1999. Therefore not from someone who carries around a "I hate all things TMO" badge, like many posting here already.

1. It has been stated that any new raiding guild is automatically Class R.

2. How can anyone expect a newly formed guild, albeit largely from an older long-standing class C guild, to just jump right into Class C type "competitive" raiding and not have the same chance to test their new raid leadership like any other "new" guild for an entire 30 days. You are setting up a situation where this guild, that is trying to do something good, is at a disadvantage and increasing their risk of failure.

Rogean stated that 69 of 74 were formerly in "The Mystical Order". I would be interested to know of those 69 how many were in their previous guilds most recent successful raids. Numbers may not always tell the whole story.

Now I have also seen screenshots of the posts allegedly regarding them "blatantly" trying to circumvent the class system. It seems to me all the post is saying, especially Detoxx's comment is just stating exactly what his post here says his intentions were.

Good luck Forsaken, definitely dealt a bad hand in a difficult situation. Salt on the wound if you will

Just this insignificant specks 2 cents based on what I have read/heard on Sirken's streams.

[Man0warr]

Rogean stated that 69 of 74 were formerly in "The Mystical Order". I would be interested to know of those 69 how many were in their previous guilds most recent successful raids. Numbers may not always tell the whole story.

Probably the majority of them were their successful raiders. If you are going to reform, why bring along the chaff you mass recruited in the last 6 months?

This is all irrelevant though. Rogean deemed Forsaken as TMO reformed, and his opinion is all that matters. If you don't like it, you know what you can do.

[wormed]

Whoever thinks Forsaken should be considered a new guild with some 95% of the previous raiders of TMO has reached an enlightened state of delusional.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by wormed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think whoever thinks Forsaken should be considered a new guild with some 95% of the previous raiders of TMO has reached an enlightened state of delusional.

Wormed, are you more comfortable with Taken and BDA remaining in class-R through velious launch, cycling their lockout timers so that guilds like Asgard will never have a real shot at downing targets? Do you not see that as a "blatant manipulation of the class system?"

Do you not agree that the class-R system was designed for guilds to progress to Class-C. Is there not enough evidence besides their lack of desire to be in Class-C to prove that they no longer belong in Class-R? If lack of desire is the only thing causing your reservation, how about a newly formed guild simply not wanting to go into Class-C right off the bat?

[Ravager]

Guild forms to drop the stigma of the old tag. Decides they want a new tag with new stigma.

[wormed]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wormed, are you more comfortable with Taken and BDA remaining in class-R through velious launch, cycling their lockout timers so that guilds like Asgard will never have a real shot at downing targets? Do you not see that as a "blatant manipulation of the class system?"

Do you not agree that the class-R system was designed for guilds to progress to Class-C. Is there not enough evidence besides their lack of desire to be in Class-C to prove that they no longer belong in Class-R? If lack of desire is the only thing causing your reservation, how about a newly formed guild simply not wanting to go into Class-C right off the bat?

First, this thread really shouldn't have anything to do with Taken, BDA, or even Asgard. I thought I was simply replying in a thread on Forsaken. What Forsaken did was wrong. I'm genuinely surprised at anyone who is against Rogean's decision, or thinks that Forsaken isn't simply an iteration of TMO. To consider Forsaken as a "new" guild is a farce, that's the point. Again, it boggles my mind that you, or anyone, can consider Forsaken to be anything more than a renamed TMO. However, it is irrelevant as Rogean agrees with my sentiment, and of others in this thread.

Second, regarding raid policy, I'm fairly new to it. Flat out. So I don't want to pretend I've been around for very long. From what I do know, are there some issues? Sure. However, when it comes to Asgard, I'm very happy with my guild.

I will say I agree that Class-R is designed to progress guilds, or at least I imagine that's the intent.

[Nibblewitz]

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Discuss.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wormed, are you more comfortable with Taken and BDA remaining in class-R through velious launch, cycling their lockout timers so that guilds like Asgard will never have a real shot at downing targets? Do you not see that as a "blatant manipulation of the class system?"

Asgard could have easily tried to work with other guilds in class R. I hear Divinity, Omni, Azure Guard, and Europa are all doing quite well.

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you not agree that the class-R system was designed for guilds to progress to Class-C. Is there not enough evidence besides their lack of desire to be in Class-C to prove that they no longer belong in Class-R? If lack of desire is the only thing causing your reservation, how about a newly formed guild simply not wanting to go into Class-C right off the bat?

Two words: trak tooth. Assuming you actually kill Trakanon 1 out of every 9 times (1/3 for class R, 1/3 for lockout), at 2-5 teeth a kill, how long would it take to field a VP keyed group of raiders if you're getting 2-5 teeth every 27 days? What about them having to compete with raiders already in class C for pieces of the medallion for the rest of the quest?

No, that's just not going to plausibly be a way to enter class C. Class R is restricted because it's more casual. It's not a launching point to join class C.

[eisley]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Two words: trak tooth.

Well, they are sold. I've never been in a guild, ever, and I have a completed VP key. I am sure I'm not alone.

But, yeah, logistically buying 30+ of them isn't realistic. I'm guessing anyways, not sure how many are banked. Kinda being a pedant, sorry.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by eisley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, they are sold. I've never been in a guild, ever, and I have a completed VP key. I am sure I'm not alone.

But, yeah, logistically buying 30+ of them isn't realistic. I'm guessing anyways, not sure how many are banked. Kinda being a pedant, sorry.

Forcing class R guilds to buy trak teeth from class C guilds would only make the chasm separating the classes worse.