Shaman race debate

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

haha this is whats so funny about you ogre fans, you are so deluted and unskilled in life that you think you NEED to be anyything to do endgame.

Could you please enlighten me and the rest of the game as to which mobs can be killed by an Ogre that cannot by another shaman race? Just name one.

Rolling ogre doesn't make encounters possible, it makes them easier than the alternatives do.

[theaetatus]

Originally Posted by phro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Double or better 100% of the time. Ogre apologetics are strong.

Fewer than 1% of shaman that get made will solo anything that matters. 100% of the Iksar and Trolls are going to regen.

Having a guild, the knowledge, the time, and the ability to be an epic soloing shaman? Great, you know you NEED to be ogre so reroll or pick that from the outset. Literally EVERYONE else benefits more from the regen.

If you're a shaman that's never going to get hit and never going to solo anything, sure. If you want to solo stuff that's vaguely difficult at any level or break a camp, the stun immunity will be much more useful.

Regen is useful when you're doing easy stuff, frontal stun immunity is better when you're doing difficult stuff. I know which situation I prefer to min/max for.

[rollin5k]

Shaman is the world of Warcraft of everquest

[DevGrousis]

I'm not saying that i've proven or disproven any bit of this really good discussion, but I just dinged 15 on my Iksar Sham, and you know how many times i've been stunned out of a spell? 4 times. SO FAR (and i know i havent gone very far at all) frontal stun immunity would be useless for me. meanwhile, regenning twice as fast has litterally allowed me to have half the downtime. Which IMO, as a solo grinder that's not twinked, has been a massive advantage.

[eisley]

consider the initiate necks. i wish i learned of the iksar one earlier, chain casting undead fear at 2 sec with no recast is... pretty powerful in some situations, such as splitting certain rooms, etc.

[eqgmrdbz]

Why i chose Barb on live, and why i chose it again on P99, yes the other races have neat bonuses, but they also have huge draw backs.

Ogres do not get stunned, but you are big and hard to maneuver in tight spaces, you are also hated in good cities, so limited banking options, you can prolly solo best with Ogre. 5% Xp penalty more than Barbs.

Trolls you regen faster, but you are also big and hard to maneuver in tight spaces like Ogre. Also hated in good cities, limited banking options. Less downtime, but also 10% Xp penalty more than Barbs.

Iksar you regen faster, but are hated everywhere, very limited banking. AC bonus, but limited gear options compared to the other races. Less downtime, but again 10% Xp penalty compared to Barbs.

Yes at 60 Barbs do not have the race bonuses, but at 60 those bonuses are less of a factor. Play what you like, i prefer Barbs because its easier i guess.

[webrunner5]

Ogre or go home. Why make a toon that is lesser for your needs. A Shaman is one of the FEW classes that can solo in Veloius. You will need all the help you can get in it. And a Ogre is that extra help to maybe save your butt. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ogre or go home. Why make a toon that is lesser for your needs. A Shaman is one of the FEW classes that can solo in Veloius. You will need all the help you can get in it. And a Ogre is that extra help to maybe save your butt. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Id bet there are equal numbers of times where stun immunity getting a spell off saves you as there are where the 80 extra HP a standing Troll gets over a minute of regening, will save you.

Shamans should never have 100% HP due to always Canning. This also means that Regen is always active, always benefitting. Sure you're getting 300 HP from your torpor per tick. But you can get 312 as a troll or Iksar.

I really wish we had the real classic version of Torpor on here for awhile that would drain 50 mana a tick. That was way more balanced :/.

[DrKvothe]

I think we've all agreed that the racial regen bonus is great while leveling, but there's an ongoing idea in this thread that it only helps with "easy stuff." The suggestion that racial regen doesn't help on hard stuff pre-60 is just plain false. Pre-torpor it's very rarely burst damage that kills a shaman, where not getting bashed means you can cast that one spell that will save you. What's more likely to kill you or force a reset is the additional mana burden of a root break or an add when you were already having trouble holding down the other four. Pre-torpor, if something is doing enough damage that bash is the difference between life and death, it's too tough for you to solo anyways. If you've got more than 2 mobs beating on you, it's because you screwed up somehow. Hopefully you screwed up right next to a wall, otherwise FSI won't get your cast off!

On the other hand, root rotting 4+ mobs is all about 1) the break and 2) mana/hp management. The break is gonna cost you a puppy, and is thus a mana issue itself when attempting to hold down multiple such rooms. You want to hit as many med ticks as possible, you want to position the mobs in such a way that you're not getting hit and if one breaks you can root and still have somewhere to move to, etc. The harder the fight the fewer the med ticks you're going to catch. FSI will save you the occasional extra round, but this should be rare if you're playing properly. Fights are likely to last 6-10 minutes, so regen actually really matters to the total amount of mana you have at your disposal.

Using canni 3 (and assuming the 100 to 47 value on wiki is accurate), at 59 a standing ogre gets ~34 mana per minute while a standing troll gets ~67 mana per minute. If you're missing a lot of med ticks because you're scrambling to keep everything rooted/dotted or you're busy positioning, this is a ridiculous difference. It's a 47 mana per minute difference if you're hitting every med tick.

[Ezalor]

Originally Posted by DrKvothe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think we've all agreed that the racial regen bonus is great while leveling, but there's an ongoing idea in this thread that it only helps with "easy stuff." The suggestion that racial regen doesn't help on hard stuff pre-60 is just plain false. Pre-torpor it's very rarely burst damage that kills a shaman, where not getting bashed means you can cast that one spell that will save you. What's more likely to kill you or force a reset is the additional mana burden of a root break or an add when you were already having trouble holding down the other four. Pre-torpor, if something is doing enough damage that bash is the difference between life and death, it's too tough for you to solo anyways. If you've got more than 2 mobs beating on you, it's because you screwed up somehow. Hopefully you screwed up right next to a wall, otherwise FSI won't get your cast off!

On the other hand, root rotting 4+ mobs is all about 1) the break and 2) mana/hp management. The break is gonna cost you a puppy, and is thus a mana issue itself when attempting to hold down multiple such rooms. You want to hit as many med ticks as possible, you want to position the mobs in such a way that you're not getting hit and if one breaks you can root and still have somewhere to move to, etc. The harder the fight the fewer the med ticks you're going to catch. FSI will save you the occasional extra round, but this should be rare if you're playing properly. Fights are likely to last 6-10 minutes, so regen actually really matters to the total amount of mana you have at your disposal.

Using canni 3 (and assuming the 100 to 47 value on wiki is accurate), at 59 a standing ogre gets ~34 mana per minute while a standing troll gets ~67 mana per minute. If you're missing a lot of med ticks because you're scrambling to keep everything rooted/dotted or you're busy positioning, this is a ridiculous difference. It's a 47 mana per minute difference if you're hitting every med tick.

you made a good argument for why regen is good at level 59

but levels 1-49, the regen is not really a big diff

i hope no one thinks they're gonna have fungi regen 1-49 while leveling up

check the graph

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