Blade of Carnage drop on beta

[koros]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're missing the point. I confirmed that warriors weren't one shotted. Most were, but Furor had the best gear, and our 2nd main tank had just about the same amount of gear to tank also without being killed outright. I didn't say anything about just someone tanking him. I'm talking a collected effort of an entire raid force with increased stats from end game zones of ToV and Sleepers to be able to kill AoW by the end of Velious. I will say he will be killed way sooner than he was on live, because of the different tactics, sheer numbers of people in a guild and things still being different than it was on live.

You can throw 60 ragebringer rogue alts but if their attack/stats aren't up to par it won't do shit to his hps/regen/how long the fight will be. This is combining items from ToV, Primals, haste items, better item BiS items at the end. I want to say if there wasn't an update and change in stats to most ToV items, AoW would haven't been killed before the expansion ended "legitly". Maybe I have the time line from tov upgrades and AoW kill that we and LoS did before the expansion ended mixed up, but I don't think so.

Just saying over all throwing numbers at a mob doesn't mean you can kill it just because of numbers. The best way to describe AoW at the start of Velious was like 100 lvl 20s attacking Brother Quinn and being killed pretty damn fast. It totally changed at the end with everyone geared up.

I bet you're right that AoW wouldn't have died then. But he would have died now given the same conditions. Your collective upgrades over the course of the expansion made a big difference on being able to kill AEing mobs with fewer people, but AoW is probably something of a rare case because he was melee only as has been pointed out.

As for your rogue point... I think this almost highlights my argument. Velious was particularly marginal to rogue dps upgrades. Backstab dps was static throughout the expansion. You saw maybe a 20%-25% dps across the board, mostly because of avatar. That means that 60 Kunark RB rogues, none of whom have avatar on in this example, is equal to 48 of your BiS end game Velious rogues.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That means that 60 Kunark RB rogues, none of whom have avatar on in this example, is equal to 48 of your BiS end game Velious rogues.

This is laughable at best, I don't think you understand how ATK vs AC should work.

AoW would explode with 48 BiS end game Velious Rogues on this server lol.

[koros]

First off it's only 133 atk. Second, do you really think the programmer VI hired in 1997 actually did a normal distribution of atk vs ac or something similar? I'm certain it was a linear model.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off it's only 133 atk. Second, do you really think the programmer VI hired in 1997 actually did a normal distribution of atk vs ac or something similar? I'm certain it was a linear model.

What you are saying is that 5 Rogues with 15/25 Main, 14/23 Offhand, no Aura of Battle, and no Avatar was equal to 4 Rogues with 15/19 Main, 15/20 Offhand, multiple Aura of Battles, and Avatar for the FULL DURATION of the fight.

Yes, it was normal distribution.

As mitigation AC overwhelms efficiency ATK, the distribution is shifted to the left (the mean is decreased), and as efficiency ATK overwhelms mitigation AC, the distribution is shifted to the right (the mean is increased).

I don't believe it was possible for ATK to overtake any bosses mitigation AC in Velious, not until Planes of Power when the caps were raised. Even then it may not have.

Backstab damage doesn't go up, so the only difference will be Avatar and better ratios.

How exactly does Backstab damage not go up with increased ATK??

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Treats

AoW would explode with 48 BiS end game Velious Rogues on this server lol.

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can throw 60 ragebringer rogue alts but if their attack/stats aren't up to par it won't do shit to his hps/regen/how long the fight will be. This is combining items from ToV, Primals, haste items, better item BiS items at the end.

How do those NToV BiS items even matter? Every rogue will have 40% haste and 255 STR, and the HP/resists are pointless as he doesn't AE. Backstab damage doesn't go up, so the only difference will be Avatar and better ratios. If we are conservative and say that Kunark rogues will do 2/3 as much damage . . . bring 50% more rogues.

Originally Posted by pasi

This is going to sound elitist, but fuck it, we've had 10 of these threads: I really wish that I could still view this game in the same mystical way many of you do. I see Avatar of War and I see a mob who has an unslowable mob capable of quads + flurries with a DB of 254 and a DI of 45. Now, you may tell stories at Thanksgiving Dinner of your suspenseful encounters with this mythical creature, but it doesn't change the fact that the dude is an unslowable mob capable of quads + flurries with a DB of 254 and a DI of 45. Got a tank who can survive a round of that? Great. Got enough clerics to make sure the tank is only taking 1 round between CHeals? Awesome. Got some mages to keep the mana going? Perfect. Let's do some work.

This. The Avatar of War is, conceptually, a trivial tank and spank fight. He has big numbers, but that just means you need more people.

[wycca]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do those NToV BiS items even matter? Every rogue will have 40% haste and 255 STR, and the HP/resists are pointless as he doesn't AE. Backstab damage doesn't go up, so the only difference will be Avatar and better ratios. If we are conservative and say that Kunark rogues will do 2/3 as much damage . . . bring 50% more rogues.



This. The Avatar of War is, conceptually, a trivial tank and spank fight. He has big numbers, but that just means you need more people.

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https://youtu.be/74BzSTQCl_c

[Daldaen]

Using charmed mobs is legit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still had enraging blow

Fixed, pending update.

[Littlegyno 13.0]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fixed, pending update.

gat dayum i fucking love u lady angel nilberg.

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fixed, pending update.

Being the only person in possession of this item, i officially hate
nirgon and nilbog. Although i kno nilbog is loving this, i still must express my lament for this situation.

In b4 madbadfatsad