Dmg/Delay + Sneak Pulling

[Cecily]

You're wrong because a poorly written wall of text, regardless of whatever points you brought up. Misinformation or not. I've tried on at least 5 separate occasions to follow what you typed there and have dismissed it as impossible. If you really want me to waste an hour cutting this post apart let me know. I'd rather not.

[Ando]

Wow thanks for the thought-out response man I really appreciate the intelligent conversations we are all having here.

If you're not willing to spend the time to give constructive feedback then do everyone a favor and go fuck yourself.

[Cecily]

I'll take that as a no. Honestly not flaming. Your post lacked good transitions from idea to another. Had some ideas which were blatantly wrong and went into mathematical tangents without a good explanation as to why we were looking at them. And then jumped from weapon selection to sneak pulling. Completely switching gears there. Sorry, I regard myself as one who possesses really strong reading comprehension skills, but there's nothing I can do with that without breaking into a EQ mechanics 101 discussion I really don't feel like writing a book on.

[Ando]

Please let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Ando]

You cannot go into a thread, say to someone that all (or most) of their claims are wrong, then say that your time is too valuable to spend refuting said ideas. I do not see any part of my original post that is unclear, and you have yet to reference anything in particular.

So as I said earlier, go fuck yourself.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Ando [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dmg/Delay - Which weapon do I put in my offhand?
So a lot of you may have just heard the piece of advice, "put the best ratio weapon in your offhand!". This is not entirely bad, but it is not always the best choice either. The reason this matters is damage bonus. Damage what?

Alright after reading your post a little more carefully, I understand why you felt compelled to clear up this age old debate that you started about offhand selection. No one is dogmatically saying that between mainhand and offhand, the best ratio goes in offhand. You're just misunderstanding. You're not wrong on anything, besides your reason for the post.

You're taking "put the best ratio weapon in your offhand" bit out of context. It's still valid, however, that only applies to choosing between offhands. The offhand with a higher ratio is superior because damage bonus does not apply to the offhand.

This is completely independent from selecting your mainhand. Mainhand factors include, as you noted, damage cap, damage bonus, and ratio. Procs and backstab dmg are also considerations. Whatever weapon fits those criteria best goes in mainhand. Whatever junk you have that fits in secondary goes there, until you find a better offhand and in that case the higher ratio wins.

[Kreylyn]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alright after reading your post a little more carefully, I understand why you felt compelled to clear up this age old debate that you started about offhand selection. No one is dogmatically saying that between mainhand and offhand, the best ratio goes in offhand. You're just misunderstanding. You're not wrong on anything, besides your reason for the post.

You're taking "put the best ratio weapon in your offhand" bit out of context. It's still valid, however, that only applies to choosing between offhands. The offhand with a higher ratio is superior because damage bonus does not apply to the offhand.

This is completely independent from selecting your mainhand. Mainhand factors include, as you noted, damage cap, damage bonus, and ratio. Procs and backstab dmg are also considerations. Whatever weapon fits those criteria best goes in mainhand. Whatever junk you have that fits in secondary goes there, until you find a better offhand and in that case the higher ratio wins.

FYI... you guys are saying the same information just wording it differently. Agreements are the worst arguments... so stop it!

Once you get over pizzing with each other over grammar and sentence structure... I'd like to point out that there are still a lot of players who don't understand the basics that were posted correctly. So the post is/was helpful. AT the very least now I can point someone towards it to help clear up their lack of information on how the basics work.

Spent the last week watching a guild mate constantly make it his mission to give wrong off hand weapon advise because he was confusing double attack mechanics with duel wield. A quote of his advice... "Off hand delay does NOT matter at all, it's not used! Just get the highest damage weapon you can in the off hand!"... /sigh

Thanks OP... fyi, made sense to me.

Krey

[jake505]

Originally Posted by Ando [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I made a post on the p99 subreddit earlier and figured I should copy it over here. As someone mentioned on my original post, this does not account for Backstabs, Crits, Procs, Ripostes, etc. Just straight auto-attack damage. Everything else is too situational to put into an equation.

Lately I've been playing with a lot of newer players, and even some more experienced ones who don't fully understand Dmg/Delay/Damage Bonus and Sneak Pulling mechanics. I'd like to elaborate on both here because I feel each is important enough to take the time to write about - and I think it is also worth your time to read.

Dmg/Delay - Which weapon do I put in my offhand?
So a lot of you may have just heard the piece of advice, "put the best ratio weapon in your offhand!". This is not entirely bad, but it is not always the best choice either. The reason this matters is damage bonus. Damage what?

The following is straight out of the game mechanics section of the P99 wiki: Damage cap = (dmg * 2) where dmg is the weapon's stated damage. levels 1-9 - damage cap is 20 levels 10-19 - damage cap is 28 Levels 20-29 - damage cap is 60 30+ - lifted, can do 2x weapon damage or more based on class The dmg2 formula is true until lvl 28 where you get 1 bonus damage every 3 levels to your main hand attack. So at level 50 you get 8 extra bonus damage: main hand = (dmg2)+8 off hand = dmg*2

Just to clarify something I felt was unclear in the above statement. The Damage cap is the actual damage applied, not the damage on your weapon. So for example, at lvl 9 the maximum you can consistently hit for is 20, so a weapon with a damage of 11 or greater (11x2=22) will essentially be wasting part of its damage. Also, the damage bonus is not affected by the x2 multiplier. For example, if you have an 8/18 weapon with a dmg bonus of 1, then it will essentially be 8.5/18.

This is important when choosing the correct weapon at lower levels, especially when deciding whether to dual wield or use a 2 hander. For example, Wu's Quivering Staff (23/28 - 2hb) needs the player to be lvl 20 in order to hit for 46 damage consistently.
Another common weapon combination is Master Wu's Trance Stick (7/18) and Knuckle Dusters (14/28) - Both 1hb monk weapons. The KD clearly has the best ratio, but should it always go in the offhand? No.


Lets look at each level range.

1-9 ---> KD Damage is capped at essentially 10/28, making it a worse ratio than Trance Stick, and there is also no damage bonus at this level, so you want the best ratio weapon (Trance Stick) in main hand to maximize damage. Weapon choice -> Trance Stick mh, KD oh.

10-28 ---> KD damage is now essentially uncapped (14/28), and since there is no damage bonus on main hand yet (Because we are < lvl 28), you want the best ratio weapon in main hand since it will swing more often. Weapon choice -> KD mh, Trance oh.

28 and on ---> At 28 your main hand starts to get a damage bonus. For example at 28 your dmg bonus is 1. So ideally your main hand will hit for (weapon dmg * 2) + 1. For example, KD will hit for (14*2) + 1 = 29, so the effective dmg/delay ratio on KD in main hand is now 14.5/28, whereas Trance Stick would be 7.5/18.


If you plug those numbers into a calculator you can see the ratio on trance stick is going to go up faster than KD as you get a higher and higher damage bonus. At a certain dmg bonus it becomes better to have trance stick in MH, and KD in OH. What damage bonus, and level, is that? Lets look at it.

See this post: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=163763 for comparing any weapon setup for monks.

Bump the calculator post if it helps you.