Raiding in Class R

[cs616]

That thread does kind of shift blame in this particular instance to the GMs for failing to clarify when people asked further questions. This entire scenario is pretty much spelled out in that thread with no response, leading to the ambitious understanding of the rules for hate camps.

Still pretty ridiculous rule lawyering though since exploiting ambiguity in the rules is essentially the definition of rule lawyering. If I were still raiding I'd propose my guild port up, declare zone in our camp, and then immediately petition anyone who ports up and doesn't promptly leave our camp for raid interference.

[Blaza]

Thread getting boring....more pie charts.

[Raev]

The reality is that having 4 guilds in Plane of Hate is always gonna lead to dumb shit. I can only imagine the tears when someone trains 4 flurry drakes on someone's raid in ToV, leading to 50 "an Onyx Defender executes a flurry of attack's on X's corpse" over the course of 12 seconds.

I wish I could make the staff understand that competition in EQ was mostly about solving new expansions, not having 4 guilds in the same zone trying for the same target. I'm not saying it never happened, but generally speaking the elite raid guilds were the elite raid guilds because they had the playtime and creativity to solve the new puzzles Verant created for them every 6 months.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reality is that having 4 guilds in Plane of Hate is always gonna lead to dumb shit. I can only imagine the tears when someone trains 4 flurry drakes on someone's raid in ToV, leading to 50 "an Onyx Defender executes a flurry of attack's on X's corpse" over the course of 12 seconds.

I wish I could make the staff understand that competition in EQ was mostly about solving new expansions, not having 4 guilds in the same zone trying for the same target. I'm not saying it never happened, but generally speaking the elite raid guilds were the elite raid guilds because they had the playtime and creativity to solve the new puzzles Verant created for them every 6 months.

This is exactly why Class C can't support more than 2 guilds and they either raid together or merge. The staff should just admit that FFA with a dozen raid guilds on the server is a total failure and way more trouble than it's worth for everyone involved and eliminate it except on repops.

[slappytwotoes]

Who gives a fuck about Inny... moar gifs!

[Tayy]

I don't understand how you can claim raid interference when you've died or camped and another guild pulls a mob solo and kills it without actually hindering anyone in anyway. Honestly you have to cause something to have happened to prevent someone from doing something. Preventing you from getting FTE and killing a mob that is already agro'd with FTE established by another guild isn't interfering, who cares where the camp was? From what I've read, it sounds like Inny was pulled solo and killed within minutes. I haven't seen TMO say they got attacked or killed, I haven't seen anyone say they got trained by BDA. The only thing I'm seeing is you didn't get a valid shot at a mob that was already agro'd with FTE by another guild and was then killed in short order. How can that in any way be construed as interference? You were not denied entry to the zone, you didn't die by zoning in, unless I'm missing something? I'm not even in a guild involved in this but I find this makes no sense to me.

[Kushie]

Originally Posted by Tayy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't understand how you can claim raid interference when you've died or camped and another guild pulls a mob solo and kills it without actually hindering anyone in anyway. Honestly you have to cause something to have happened to prevent someone from doing something. Preventing you from getting FTE and killing a mob that is already agro'd with FTE established by another guild isn't interfering, who cares where the camp was? From what I've read, it sounds like Inny was pulled solo and killed within minutes. I haven't seen TMO say they got attacked or killed, I haven't seen anyone say they got trained by BDA. The only thing I'm seeing is you didn't get a valid shot at a mob that was already agro'd with FTE by another guild and was then killed in short order. How can that in any way be construed as interference? You were not denied entry to the zone, you didn't die by zoning in, unless I'm missing something? I'm not even in a guild involved in this but I find this makes no sense to me.

This is how TMO operates. Spam /petition when you don't get loot, they've been doing it for years. There was no interference.

[Samoht]

i love how dumbrella's approach is actually going to cause moar trains and moar griefing.

guise, it's much easier and moar civil if we require all raid zones to operate by training trash away like TMO does in VP/PoFear.

[Troubled]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i love how dumbrella's approach is actually going to cause moar trains and moar griefing.

guise, it's much easier and moar civil if we require all raid zones to operate by training trash away like TMO does in VP/PoFear.

There's the rub. Training all your shit up to inny's room while everyone frantically races up there is not a wise way to get FTE and it wiped 3 guilds. Pulling inny cleanly to zone wiped 0 guilds. The proof's in the pudding. Is TMO petioning IB and Taken, and IB petitioning TMO and Taken, and Taken petitioning IB and TMO for training each other at Inny? No, Unbrella is fixated on what Chest did that didn't cause any harm.

Why do you need the zone in if you're camped out?

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Troubled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you need the zone in if you're camped out?

because TMO clearly needs two camps to kill inny. they're not giving up the zone in camp when they move up to the well, they're just dividing their force so that they get a second FTE after the first group wipes/camps.

on track: camping the zone in in hate is a requirement. despite what dumbrella would have you believe, it's not debatable: you must clear the zone in in order progress through the rest of the zone. therefore, anybody pulling to the zone in has established themselves as camping the zone in.

if TMO had established a camp at the zone in and planned to continue to pull there, shame on chest for planting a raid on top of them and then pulling on top of them. if TMO had really moved up, then they relinquished any claim to the camp at the zone in, and BDA has clear claim to the camp and any remaining TMO must leave the zone or move to the TMO camp, or else they have no further claim to camp.

then, if chest pulls inny to the zone in while passing through every opposing camp ultimately training them and wiping their raid, then shame on chest. but if chest pulls inny to the zone in (to his established camp), and there are no other raid forces in between the spawn and the BDA raid force, then it sounds like a clean pull to me.