SK vs Warrior in Velious?

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

paladins and shadowknights can tank p much every single raid mob in kunark except for maybe bee boss in sky and overseer of air

warriors will be the only class tanking a majority of raid mobs in velious

the idea of a cleric being as good at tanking as a paladin is just retarded

I was just pulling peoples leg on the Cleric being better at DPS than a Pally. But as long as you have enough mana they can with their spells. But that does not last very long. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] But other than weapon skill gimped on them you hardly see much difference DPS wise because a Pally just plain sucks DPS wise. And a Cleric can wear plate just like a Pally and have probably as much AC or More. I am sure they have less damage mitigation as a Pally has, but, that is not saying much.

I do remember using a Pally in our Guild to pull in Kael a lot. They are good at splitting mobs with the lull line of spells, and living to get back while being hit in the ass. And was good at spot healing, some CC and Stuns. They did tank normal mobs in Velious well, but if you had a Warrior in there the Pally was going to be Main Assist to it.

The trouble with them, like has been said in here and other threads, is you are not going to lose much or any sleep if you do not have one in your group.

Now a Ranger I will give credit to IF they do not Tank, but if you have no other tank you will use one, Hell you have to have someone do it, is they are DAMN good pullers in outdoor zones, and damn good at CC in both outdoor and indoor. And they have better DPS than a Pally, and with Weaponshield you want 10 of them on a raid for first engagement. And they are great at standing up on a hill shooting a mob in the ass with arrows. With good dex they crit a lot. And well with their Tracking they are a god send.

But a Warrior is hands down the best Tank when Velious comes out. Meat Puppet for a reason.

[SCB]

Warriors are the second-worst melee for tanking in a leveling group. Their aggro management is terrible and literally nothing you can 1-group requires warrior durability over a knight, and almost nothing requires a knight over a monk/ranger.


In Kunark, 95%+ of the game is 1-grouping. For grouping in Kunark, top 3 group tanks (in order) are:
1: Paladin
2: SK
3: Ranger/Monk tied assuming the monk isnt a fungi/epic twink, in which case monk is 1st

In Velious, 90%+ of the game is 1-grouping. In Velious, top 3 group tanks (in order) are:
1: Monk
2: Paladin
3: SK

If you can't keep up even a moderately geared ranger/monk against some random KC mob, you're a terrible healer.

People bitch and moan about hybrids this and min/max that but it's all a bunch of crap. Just play a class you like. You'll be playing it for 100+ days of your life easily.

[sox7d]

A group with a paladin that has C and a moderate healer will have a bottle neck in mobs way before mana and agro won't be a problem.

A group with a shadowknight that has C and a moderate healer will be more likely to be waiting for priest's mana and agro won't be a problem.

Warriors are better raid tanks, but chances are you won't be a raid tank unless you're particularly ambitious and willing to invest that kind of time.

Anyone that thinks shadowknights are better than paladins probably shops at hot topic, writes deviantart poetry and nicknames themselves "Raven."

Case closed. Period.

[Taminy]

Originally Posted by SCB [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors are the second-worst melee for tanking in a leveling group. Their aggro management is terrible and literally nothing you can 1-group requires warrior durability over a knight, and almost nothing requires a knight over a monk/ranger.


In Kunark, 95%+ of the game is 1-grouping. For grouping in Kunark, top 3 group tanks (in order) are:
1: Paladin
2: SK
3: Ranger/Monk tied assuming the monk isnt a fungi/epic twink, in which case monk is 1st

In Velious, 90%+ of the game is 1-grouping. In Velious, top 3 group tanks (in order) are:
1: Monk
2: Paladin
3: SK

If you can't keep up even a moderately geared ranger/monk against some random KC mob, you're a terrible healer.

People bitch and moan about hybrids this and min/max that but it's all a bunch of crap. Just play a class you like. You'll be playing it for 100+ days of your life easily.

On the other hand warriors make better melee/heal duo partner than any class besides monks.

[DrKvothe]

I don't really understand all the shit-talk against warriors as tanks. There are so few encounters where someone stealing aggro from the tank could cause a wipe. If the shaman gets aggro from slow, it just means the melees have to work a bit harder to reposition. Rogues should manage their aggro better, and monks can handle the attention. Wipes almost universally come from shit involving crowd control, pull snafus, etc. that have nothing to do with who has the attention of the dps target.

Questions about velious hybrid tanking:
1) Does the low defense skill cap for Rangers (200 iirc?) ever get lifted during velious?
2) How will capping AC from gear (350?) affect the ability of Rangers and even Bards to tank in situations that don't require defensive disc?

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by DrKvothe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wipes almost universally come from shit involving crowd control, pull snafus, etc. that have nothing to do with who has the attention of the dps target.

To be fair, 100% of wipes have everything to do with who has the attention of the mob(s). Also, if you're gonna say that DPS should be managing their aggro better, which I agree with BTW, quit... pulling... aggro... on... slow. You are murdering every melee's enjoyment of the game when you do that. Or maybe, just maybe, change your position so that when you pull aggro the whole group doesn't have to track the mob down and re-position.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BTW, quit... pulling... aggro... on... slow.

Sometimes that's easier said than done!

Last time my wife was on a raid (albeit with warrior tanks who don't have VP gear), she couldn't slow at 90% without pulling hate. So she'd wait till 75%. No go, still pulled hate. So wait till 50%....STILL pulled aggro most every time. So she just stopped slowing at all. Didn't pull hate anymore!

There'll never be full agreement with respect to the tank classes in this game because they're all flawed. No matter which one you pick you have significant limitations you have to deal with. So pick your poison. Newer games have done a better job of implementing their tank classes; with P1999 we just accept the bad with the good. With respect to the thread title, SK (and Paladin) versus Warrior doesn't really change much in Velious. They have the same relative strengths versus each other and are favored in the same aspects of gameplay where they already are.

Danth

[Jontheripper]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be fair, 100% of wipes have everything to do with who has the attention of the mob(s). Also, if you're gonna say that DPS should be managing their aggro better, which I agree with BTW, quit... pulling... aggro... on... slow. You are murdering every melee's enjoyment of the game when you do that. Or maybe, just maybe, change your position so that when you pull aggro the whole group doesn't have to track the mob down and re-position.

When i accidentally pull aggro, i just run straight towards my tank and stand between his legs (halfli.g) and hope he can peel it off before i die, dont make the tank chase mobs.

[Zapatos]

Sk's get a much better fast casting feign in velious and an improved rune, which is amazing if you've got plenty of peridots to use. SK's can regen hp to an extraordinary degree depending on your race/gear, minimizing healing needed on trash. Their ability to pump out insane amounts of snap aggro makes them ideal for anything that's not a boss. You'll understand when you see HoT raids with warriors that can't hold aggro.

Warriors unquestionably superior for boss fights

[Celatus]

I prefer warriors for most applications. Superior dps and mitigation. Paladins and Sk are awesome at what they do though which is why 3 tank classes exist.