Public Raid Petitions: P99 Freedom of Information Act - Page 12

quido · #1 12-14-2014, 06:30 AM

Turn into?

Frieza_Prexus · #2 12-15-2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dizey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't read the whole thread, but sounds like petitions will just turn into a "who has the best spin team" match.

I meant to address this earlier, but better Nate than lever. This will not be the case. This is not about lawyering or spinning. This proposal decreases "spin" by decreasing the opportunity to do so; it limits all petitions to a single document of VERY concise and direct argument. It forces all parties to put everything out there at once while the decision maker decides. There is no back and forth. Currently, petitions suffer from two major problems:

1) There is no organization; communications happen behind people's backs. This means that people are not given answers, evidence, and sometimes aren't even told what violation they're being charged with! This isn't malicious; it's a result of poor organization.

Public raid petitions means that all information and evidence MUST be submitted before hand so that the GM can take a single look at it without having to go back and forth losing information in the shuffle.

2) There is a lack of accountability for those that abuse the system. Public petitions force frivolous petitions and poor rulings into sight, and it helps prevent such abuses. Additionally, public access prevents even the appearance of bias or impropriety on the part of the decision makers. Preserving the dignity of the process is nearly as important as preserving the integrity of the process, and public access does both.

Ravager · #3 12-15-2014, 06:20 PM

TMO had years to improve things for everyone. Now that they have to put up with the same bullshit everyone else had to put up with when dealing with them they want the change? You guys made everything about who had the best fraps/lawyer team. Deal with it.

Frieza_Prexus · #4 12-15-2014, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO had years to improve things for everyone. Now that they have to put up with the same bullshit everyone else had to put up with when dealing with them they want the change? You guys made everything about who had the best fraps/lawyer team. Deal with it.

TMO is not trying to change anything; I do not speak for TMO. Please address the issue on its merits, not on lines of faction. Are you seriously saying that we shouldn't fix a broken system because the "wrong person" is suggesting it? To put it as politely as possible: that is some seriously weak-ass shit right there.

If you think it's a bad idea, then explain why. Getting your rocks off about karma isn't an acceptable form of argument.

Ravager · #5 12-15-2014, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO is not trying to change anything; I do not speak for TMO. Please address the issue on its merits, not on lines of faction. Are you seriously saying that we shouldn't fix a broken system because the "wrong person" is suggesting it? To put it as politely as possible: that is some seriously weak-ass shit right there.

If you think it's a bad idea, then explain why. Getting your rocks off about karma isn't an acceptable form of argument.

I wasn't arguing for or against it. I was merely pointing out the irony of this post.

You do not speak for TMO. For someone who has been in the guild for years, you sure do try to distance yourself from everything the tag has come to represent. I'd say you're in the wrong guild, but hypocrisy suits the tag.

Here's an argument against it: Open petitions won't fix the real problem and that's petitions happening in the first place. The only thing that will stop the petitions and bullshit is a full on rotation. As long as there's a FTE/FFA aspect to the raid scene, there will always be people running each other over to get the mob and crying foul.

I would argue further that a full rotation system would create a more classic atmosphere than the class system. After all, people didn't find P99 and say, "Hey, they have poopsocking and 3am batphones! That takes me back!".