Why?

[fadetree]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's just common sense really. The moment you go from believing in a god or deities to only believing that it could be a possibility, you become an atheist. Atheism is a prerequisite for being an agnostic.

Wow, I think you better check your definitions. I might be wrong, but I don't think so, everything I find says basically the opposite.

[fadetree]

I'd think you knew I understood what you were saying in your first post by my reply, but maybe not. The 'bald claim' I am talking about is the subject through all of this, I wasn't saying you were making that claim yourself.

[Borak]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd think you knew I understood what you were saying in your first post by my reply, but maybe not. The 'bald claim' I am talking about is the subject through all of this, I wasn't saying you were making that claim yourself.

Ah the original post. Well OK, I just don't know how many actual atheists in the world actually say "I know with absolute certainty that no gods exist." I've never met any atheists like that, even at large atheist meetings. I think people just say that on the internet to be verbal gasbags.

[fadetree]

Well, anyway, before this disintegrates, thanks for the answers. It's given me a lot to think about.

[paulgiamatti]

My argument is that agnostic theism doesn't make sense, since theism is the belief in a deity or deities. Admitting that you don't know if a deity exists or not is the same thing as not believing in that deity. My argument is that the distinction people make between belief and knowledge is a distinction without a difference.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Admitting that you don't know if a deity exists or not is the same thing as not believing in that deity.

that's actually the definition of faith, lol. i think you're proving why atheists are mostly smarter than christians. don't get me wrong, there are some smart christians. some.

but there are some dumb atheists, too, and you do have your definitions backwards.

[paulgiamatti]

Faith is a more malleable word than that. Many theists could say they know with absolute certainty that their deity exists, but they'd still call that faith.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, but that cuts both ways. Lack of evidence for is not evidence against. And by evidence I mean 'scientific evidence', not emotionalism or faith or just deciding you don't like something.

At the very least some notions of god are disproven via observable evidence. The Aztecs followed a sick and bloodthirsty religion that mandated the sun be fed the blood of human sacrifice (among other things) so as to have the strength to rise. After the Spanish ended their civilization, razed their temples, and halted their ceremonies, the sun did in fact continue rising each day and life on earth did not end. Just as well, too...would've put a damper on this discussion if all life had ended 500 years ago.


Danth

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At the very least some notions of god are disproven via observable evidence. The Aztecs followed a sick and bloodthirsty religion that mandated the sun be fed the blood of human sacrifice (among other things) so as to have the strength to rise. After the Spanish ended their civilization, razed their temples, and halted their ceremonies, the sun did in fact continue rising each day and life on earth did not end. Just as well, too...would've put a damper on this discussion if all life had ended 500 years ago.


Danth

how do you know that the aztecs didn't already supply the sun with enough blood offering to continue to rise for another 500 years? gosh, i hope it doesn't run out soon...

[Pokesan]

You can't know anything. Knowledge is merely opinion. The human body is a mystery, science just falls in a hole when it tries to explain the nature of the soul. Science is just how we're trained to look at reality. How does science explain psychics, auras, the power of prayer?