It'll never be C/R

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Both the hardcore cutthroat and the cooperative play styles existed on live, but the former was far more prevalent. This server's purpose is determined solely by The Vision™ as laid out by its owners. There is no right, wrong, or better way to play on or govern the server if it does not further that purpose.

Certainly, we may suggest better ways to accomplish certain goals and attract or retain a certain type of player, but we cannot speak in terms of "should" or "ought" if it does not further the developer's vision. It just so happens that the owners of this server have decided to cater more strongly to the hardcore while also assuring cooperative players that they will not be disregarded, despite being less favored.

This mostly makes sense but you can't just put this on the server staff. E.g. if the staff made a purely FFA environment, would people then agree to rules that avoid things like batphones / tracking / socking? I bet most would, but the few that don't would make it not work out since you need everyone to cooperate. Honestly the way I see it is an inability for the two groups to come to a mutual understanding, and then the server staff stepping in to enforce their own preferences, rather than the staff being the primary reason we have what we have.

In servers like mine on live we still had more hardcore and less hardcore raid guilds. The hardcore guilds got a ton more stuff even with rotations, because it took a while for the casuals to be able to kill those same things (often times several expansions later than the hardcores). But still, for the mobs the more casual guilds could kill, they were given an equal share because on my server the hardcore guilds did not want to deal with the same things we deal with on p99 any less than the less hardcore guilds did. So a mutual and simple understanding was formed.

It's a shame we can't do that here and had to have staff impose their on vision on us.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Oh, I'm not putting any of the negative actions of players on the staff's shoulders. I'm simply stating that when we speak in terms of what "should" be done that it must conform to the stated purpose of the server. We can point out what "can" be done or what might help certain player groups, but we cannot speak in terms of what "should" be done.

Certainly there are issues. Everquest raiding is largely a textbook example of the tragedy of the commons.

Originally Posted by Magnar

Whether or not the developers have a 'vision' of what they want raiding to be is irrelevant.

Not so. The staff very much decided that what was happening was not in accordance with their vision and the raid discussions came about as a direct result of that. I am just pointing out that we have to be realistic with our expectations. Before the environment can change, a deeper systemic change must first occur within the developer's minds. What the developers want is entirely relevant. In fact, it's the whole point.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I still visit chat rooms sometimes too magnar. But when I want to play games I'd like a little bit of challenge at least.

[Argh]

C/C/R is basically what exists now. The C/R/FFA cycle was set up with the understanding that most FFA mobs would be going to class C. FFA was also meant to allow pugs to have access to raid mobs, which is incredibly unlikely given the FFA scene as it exists now, but it was a sticking point.

Most issues boil down to differing opinions as to why R and C exist. People either view them as:

• supporting different play styles; or
• segregation based on skill(immersion) i.e. a farm system.

[Boti]

FORCEFUL ENTRY

CLASS R HERO

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Boti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FORCEFUL ENTRY

CLASS R HERO

shinko stahp.

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by PhilMcKracken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What some of you retards don't seem to understand is that none of that shit really matters.

Rotation sucks for a number of reasons, there will always be issues between guilds and someone will always want to break rotation. Rotation also does not allow you more mobs. Rotation extends mobs out even further because now you have to add all guilds that want in the rotation and since there is no competition in rotation,just about anyone can get in, thus prolonging you from getting any mobs. Then comes into play where people are dual-guilding or even triple guilding for the benefit of more items and mobs.

The bottom line is the people who want more items and want to sink their lives into the game will always get those items, the people who don't , wont.

All FFA will suck for anyone not class C because Class C will literally clean up almost every mob without the bag limit in place. If it is a bag limit, then you are basically asking for a game without any competition minus the competition between guilds that haven't killed any mobs and that isn't real competition is it?

It goes like this, this game is a time-sink game, if youve invested many man hours into the game, you deserve more because it is the same way in life. More hours you work, the more pay you get , etc. The thing that makes Everquest special is that you have to work and spend time to gear up and work your way to the top. The people who spent more time will almost always have better stuff. The more time you spend, the better stuff youll get. You have every opportunity to do the same over a period of time.

No one is disagreeing with that general claim in spite of the needlessly aggressive presentation. If your claim is that class C works 10x as hard as class R then ok, you deserve C/C/R. If your claim is that C works 5x as hard as class R, then C/R is more appropriate. Etc.