Stop the Socking

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, so we have to create rules to protect class C from competition.

You aren't wrong, I just find it amusing.

I know I'm not wrong - and I'm not saying the stance is right or wrong to take, but we're all kidding ourselves here if we were to say this is not about gross % of actual pixel intake, and is about potential pixel intake.

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reasons beyond what Sirken said are that C/R FFA repop takes a % away from C's pie

This isn't rocket surgery folks

They don't want to give up a %, and nor should they
R doesn't want to give up a %, and nor should they

Keep the %'s identical to how it is now and figure out a system, fuck

It puts in perspective the reasons, and saying the reasons makes you think about them consciously.

E.g. Currently a class C guild gets 10x of a mob for every 1x a class R guild gets. I would like to hear from class C themselves if this amount is really what they as individuals think is appropriate, rather than saying C/C/R or "we don't want to concede mobs" which obscures exactly how much more they get. This is beneficial for both class C themselves (they actually see the effect they have) and those who are trying to come to an agreement, to see where they stand. I bet that actual amount would cause some dissonance within class C ranks, they are people too after all, most of them good [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It puts in perspective the reasons, and saying the reasons makes you think about them consciously.

E.g. Currently a class C guild gets 10x of a mob for every 1x a class R guild gets. I would like to hear from class C themselves if this amount is really what they as individuals think is appropriate, rather than saying C/C/R or "we don't want to concede mobs" which obscures exactly how much more they get. This is beneficial for both class C themselves (they actually see the effect they have) and those who are trying to come to an agreement, to see where they stand. I bet that actual amount would cause some dissonance within class C ranks, they are people too after all [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's my back of the envelope math crunching the numbers

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's my back of the envelope math crunching the numbers

While I appreciate those calculations, I think it's harder for people to put time into processing that. That's why I'm sort of after a simpler consideration. I would really like the class C members to think about that sincerely; their guild gets 10x of a mob for every 1x a class R guild gets. (This agrees with your numbers, 2*39/2 ~ 40 per class C guild if class C gets all FFA, 39/10 ~4). Do class C members really feel this is where the server should be? Not class C guild gets 5x of a class R guild or something more along those lines? That seems still like a ton more to me.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I appreciate those calculations, I think it's harder for people to put time into processing that. That's why I'm sort of after a simpler consideration. I would really like the class C members to think about that sincerely; their guild gets 10x of a mob for every 1x a class R guild gets. (This agrees with your numbers, 2*39/2 ~ 40 per class C guild if class C gets all FFA, 39/10 ~4). Do class C members really feel this is where the server should be? Not class C guild gets 5x of a class R guild or something more along those lines? That seems still like a ton more to me.

the percentages are that Class C gets about 75-80% of the mobs in a given month, if we moved to the new plan they'd get something between 65-70% of the mobs in a given month. That decrease is what they are arguing against. They want to maintain that ratio of 75-80% or if we went C/C/R just to eliminate the overlap in classes they'd get even more.

the only other proposal that they've considered is changing coth races to foot races which again does not change the culture of poop socking.

This server needs fundamental raid reform, not swapping one poopsock for another.

[LizardNecro]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reasons beyond what Sirken said are that C/R FFA repop takes a % away from C's pie

This isn't rocket surgery folks

They don't want to give up a %, and nor should they
R doesn't want to give up a %, and nor should they

Keep the %'s identical to how it is now and figure out a system, fuck

What about C/R/FFA, but still full FFA on repops?

[Daldaen]

My suggestion keeps the ratios the exact same.

It just removed CotHing, replaces with a foot race/common sense rules. Which will get rid of poopsocking mostly and this will warrant a reduction of variance so that we can raid and not have to devote 16 hours tracking per mob.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that doesn't solve poopsocking. it just redefines it temporarily

Are groups of people shitting in a sock with their character logged in getting rebuffed, waiting at a zone line for a spawn?

No? Fantastic, it removes most poopsocking.

Having characters camped =/= poopsocking. It is dumb, but there is absolutely no way around it since everyone in high end guilds has multiple raid worthy Alts they camp out.

Full respawns were shot down. It sucks I agree. But it's time to make do with what we have.

Derubael stated he understands the necessity of having trackers. We need to limit the amount of people sitting in zones during windows (which my proposal limits), and we need to limit the amount of time these people sit there (which smaller variance limits).

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are people shitting in a sock with their character logged in getting rebuffed, waiting at a zone line for a spawn?

No? Fantastic, it removes most poopsocking.

Having characters camped =/= poopsocking. It is dumb, but there is absolutely no way around it since everyone in high end guilds has multiple raid worthy Alts they camp out.

Full respawns were shot down. It sucks I agree. But it's time to make do with what we have.

full respawns have not been shut down, if TMO and IB in good faith agreed to my proposal and THEN Rogean shot it down then i'd be more inclined to find other avenues, and i'm talking they buy in wholeheartedly and Rogean denies it, not some pretend shit with a deal in an alley knowing that its going to get it stomped out

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not some pretend shit with a deal in an alley knowing that its going to get it stomped out

lol