so the gm`s (sirken & derubael) blame the red community

[Tradesonred]

Computer wizardry

[Buhbuh]

I don't think anyone's calling out the GM's in this thread.

It is kind of interesting, though, that red, being the war zone that it sometimes is, has fewer GM's for its oversight. It's definitely a smaller server, but there's very few GM's even watching events unfold.

It's unfortunate that that's a necessity to recover what people think of as "fairness" here, but I've suggested in the past that the staff recruit several people as strictly Red guides without seeing much momentum.

I don't think they're doing a fucked up job with this server, we just don't have anyone to watch the population when shit gets out of hand. Regardless of what some of us may believe about having rules in the first place, we do have rules here and virtually no way to enforce them (even fraps doesn't suffice at times). I'm not overly fond of GM intervention, but as of late there's been a very public, blatant disregard for the rules among the player base, and without the oversight of anyone to enforce it, it will only continue.

To be frank, that's been the routine from day one. Yes, some of us will get the ban hammer when GM's are online, but the majority of us won't - and that's where things get murky. People aren't afraid to do stupid shit here because the likelihood of retribution is not only improbable, but unlikely to happen within a reasonable timeframe.

It's pretty clear the player base can't do it all on their own despite its many, sometimes half-hearted, efforts. I'd also venture to say, again, that without making an example of a handful of people, it will just continue.

There is a good reason Vallon and Rallos Zek were the higher populated servers between the four PvP servers, and I can tell you for certain that the cultures there were much more forgiving and player friendly (despite your feelings of how blue that is). If your most fond memories of EQ are bind camping, CCing, training - then I can see the reticence of wanting to change. But if your most fond memories were good mass PvP battles, smaller PvP skirmishes, or real competitiveness - well...

We've all got our work cut out for us.

[Stasis01]

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think anyone's calling out the GM's in this thread.

It is kind of interesting, though, that red, being the war zone that it sometimes is, has fewer GM's for its oversight. It's definitely a smaller server, but there's very few GM's even watching events unfold.

It's unfortunate that that's a necessity to recover what people think of as "fairness" here, but I've suggested in the past that the staff recruit several people as strictly Red guides without seeing much momentum.

I don't think they're doing a fucked up job with this server, we just don't have anyone to watch the population when shit gets out of hand. Regardless of what some of us may believe about having rules in the first place, we do have rules here and virtually no way to enforce them (even fraps doesn't suffice at times). I'm not overly fond of GM intervention, but as of late there's been a very public, blatant disregard for the rules among the player base, and without the oversight of anyone to enforce it, it will only continue.

To be frank, that's been the routine from day one. Yes, some of us will get the ban hammer when GM's are online, but the majority of us won't - and that's where things get murky. People aren't afraid to do stupid shit here because the likelihood of retribution is not only improbable, but unlikely to happen within a reasonable timeframe.

It's pretty clear the player base can't do it all on their own despite its many, sometimes half-hearted, efforts. I'd also venture to say, again, that without making an example of a handful of people, it will just continue.

There is a good reason Vallon and Rallos Zek were the higher populated servers between the four PvP servers, and I can tell you for certain that the cultures there were much more forgiving and player friendly (despite your feelings of how blue that is). If your most fond memories of EQ are bind camping, CCing, training - then I can see the reticence of wanting to change. But if your most fond memories were good mass PvP battles, smaller PvP skirmishes, or real competitiveness - well...

We've all got our work cut out for us.

I take it you weren't at the fight? Because it was like 40 mins long, and def wasn't over after a train.

In the middle I thought we were going to lose. Mostly the Nihi grp doing work tho, Gongshow Onepunch Tune Deka Weta etc etc were the heavy hitters of the fight - duh.

[Vharvest]

Buhbuh so wise, glad he's in my guild. SPEAK IT BROTHER

[Potus]

There is a toxic community. But who let that shit fester for so long? They mention first impressions, how about releasing an insanely buggy, broken server with horrible rulesets and awful resist coding?

It's just as much the GMs' fault as it is the playerbase. When you don't have a GM around to police training and corpse camping and obvious RMT'ing then yeah the server is going to fail. You can't then turn around and be like "Whoa look at these bad apples, shame on you!"

[Stasis01]

And I bet you see more people showing up to a fight like that - maybe not though, but I bet all sides had some fun.

Plus they took Tal and Sev, not too shabby for second place.

[Buhbuh]

Yeah, there's an equal responsibility. At first, I would have said it's entirely up to the population to police themselves, but we certainly aren't going to change and start acting civil now (for some retarded reason), so at some point the GM's will have to concede that and work around us.

I wasn't talking about today, Stasis. I don't think whether the train ended the battle today or not is even relevant to the underlying issue, though. The fact that the train even happened and, as per usual, no GM saw it, no GM will likely see it and nothing will be done about it, is more the concern.

It's an unqualified rule - not a "if the competition doesn't end with the train, that's an extenuating circumstance on the rule."

It's a problem with consistency more than anything.

[Stasis01]

Def not at the fight.

[Buhbuh]

Are you okay?

[Concave]

It would be kind've nice if a do-good'ing GM would stop by the various raid battles happening nowadays. They're not that frequent and are pretty easy to predict given how many of the major spawn timers are clustered together.

Either that or just amend the PnP to be intentionally more lax in raid battles. The current situation---where training is technically illegal but plays a major role in essentially every large PvP fight anyway because it is so radically unlikely to result in a sufficiently costly suspension or ban---is a particularly frustrating situation.

I don't think any change targeted primarily at the high end is likely to do much for the server, though; I think Derubael's pointed this out before. I figure most of the people quitting are being griefed off the server by Abualfreeporti or Maximillien in the 1-35 range, not by Lite in their 50s. Most of the presently level 55+ folks in particular are rabid die-hards, and particularly difficult to actually drive off, although this seems to be changing somewhat with the current wave of people hitting 51+; anecdotally, it seems like we have a fair number of people who are actually kind of new to a lot of EQ and are now entering Red99's 50+ range, which is really surprising, but maybe a natural result of the huge group exp bonus.

Anyway, I've run into the occasional person helping to buff random lowbies and handing out free items and stuff. Some folks even help to drive off the uber-twinked lowbie PKs. That kind of stuff does more for server population than anything else, in my opinion.