religion

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You did not. Iruinedyourday however does and decided to take your side on the argument which if you read my post again, was clearly stated.

suck my dick, kaga. You read no posts, you just say the same dumb shit over and over and disagree with everyone.

[paulgiamatti]

Then I'll simply ask if anyone else thought I was being unclear in my original statement that infractions like genital mutilation, though minor in the grand scheme of horrific crimes perpetrated upon humanity, are indeed immoral and reprehensible but shouldn't be the determining factor in whether a free state deserves a moral pass. If you can't see how that's relevant to universal morality, then that's no problem of mine.

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You did not. Iruinedyourday however does and decided to take your side on the argument which if you read my post again, was clearly stated.

Ah, then I misunderstood you here, though I have a feeling iruinedyourday will have something else to say about it.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then I'll simply ask if anyone else thought I was being unclear in my original statement that infractions like genital mutilation, though minor in the grand scheme of horrific crimes perpetrated upon humanity, are indeed immoral and reprehensible but shouldn't be the determining factor in whether a free state deserves a moral pass. If you can't see how that's relevant to universal morality, then that's no problem of mine.

I would rather go back to the original point as opposed to arguing semantics (not disregarding what you are saying, I in fact agree with most of it, it is not relevant to the original question is all).

The Religious claim is that either a. Morality is in our hearts because of God or b. Humans are universally immoral without the Bible. They pick one or the other depending on which suits their purposes at what time.

Secularists (I at least) are aware that while morality is something, it's a mere concept and is absolutely not universally uniform, but varying types of morality (universally?) exist among (most) animal species, man included. Is it hereditary or socially constructed or both? Honestly I have no fucking clue. I do know that hereditary morality would be subject to change in the same way that hair color, height, intelligence, etc. have variations within the same gene pool.

In short I think the original question was malformed.

[RobotElvis]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would rather go back to the original point as opposed to arguing semantics (not disregarding what you are saying, I in fact agree with most of it, it is not relevant to the original question is all).

The Religious claim is that either a. Morality is in our hearts because of God or b. Humans are universally immoral without the Bible. They pick one or the other depending on which suits their purposes at what time.

Secularists (I at least) are aware that while morality is something, it's a mere concept and is absolutely not universally uniform, but varying types of morality (universally?) exist among (most) animal species, man included. Is it hereditary or socially constructed or both? Honestly I have no fucking clue. I do know that hereditary morality would be subject to change in the same way that hair color, height, intelligence, etc. have variations within the same gene pool.

In short I think the original question was malformed.

Yes but morality has everything to do with "f:ck religion". That is a statement based upon the morality of religion. Plain and simple.

So the issue is where does morality come from? It cannot be proven to be a product of biological evolution, or it plus be present in the animal kingdom.

[paulgiamatti]

Looks like he beat me to the punch.

[paulgiamatti]

Yes, but the American Civil War is a perfect example of something resulting from the pressing issues that I'm highlighting, not from something like capital punishment.

I'm not saying capital punishment, or gun control, or genital mutilation are minor nuances. I'm saying they are minor nuances in comparison to the massive atrocities that people are capable of committing against humanity.

[paulgiamatti]

I simply disagree with you when you say it's a mere concept, that's all. I think it's both a man-made concept as well as innate in us, and derived from our natural ability to love and be compassionate toward one another.

[leewong]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I simply disagree with you when you say it's a mere concept, that's all. I think it's both a man-made concept as well as innate in us, and derived from our natural ability to love and be compassionate toward one another.

Empathy is innate. Morality springs from empathy and our ability to reason...both being biological. So I would say it depends on where you draw the line.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Empathy is innate. Morality springs from empathy and our ability to reason...both being biological.

Yeah, I think this is a good way of putting it.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Empathy is innate. Morality springs from empathy and our ability to reason...both being biological. So I would say it depends on where you draw the line.

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I think this is a good way of putting it.