Raid Suspension: The Mystical Order

[Freakish]

No matter how you pull Xygoz, you'll be bringing him down through Hoshkar. There is a very small brief window of opportunity where he sits in his room, then he immediately goes back to pathing through the zone. Would sneak pulling Xygoz have worked? Maybe. It apparently didn't, because Hokushin gained aggro on Hoshkar, either through someone buffing before Xygoz passed him and didn't have sneak on or he was facing the wrong way. He should have been facing away if he was being trained up.

All it means to me is that regardless of TMO interference that Hoshkar was coming to zone in. The only difference was there was no fancy zonewide FTE message to show you that you gained aggro on it.

[Rais]

Yet this doesn't match up what the staff talked to with the players in question. It's pretty fucking simple dude. Your puller had FTE on Hosh, he and your guild was responsible for what it does while you train it away. Even in death of a puller. This goes for IB, TMO, BDA, Taken or Intense Cocksuckers of Norrath. If you have FTE and training shit around, you are responsible for it. End of story.

I can make it simple

Sirken: Who had agro on Hosh and training stuff up?

TMO : We had FTE on hosh and was training everything up.

IB: Sounds about right.

Sirken: Did Hosh come to zone in because IB had agro?

IB: Seems like it, not sure how we had agro
TMO : Well we trained shit up and Hosh passed next to Xygoz on your pull while you were waiting to engage.

Sirken: Oh, so the train up gained social agro onto Hoku, and when your puller died it went to zone in for IB?

IB+TMO: Seems like that could be the case

Sirken : Any rebuttals?

TMO: Well they should know they have agro if we lose our train/pull. It's not our fault they didn't derail it or camp out in time.

Sirken, Derubael, Rogean: .................

This very easily could be tmo in the position of IB. If it happens, petition away and get them suspended for the same thing.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yet this doesn't match up what the staff talked to with the players in question. It's pretty fucking simple dude. Your puller had FTE on Hosh, he and your guild was responsible for what it does while you train it away. Even in death of a puller. This goes for IB, TMO, BDA, Taken or Intense Cocksuckers of Norrath. If you have FTE and training shit around, you are responsible for it. End of story.

I can make it simple

Sirken: Who had agro on Hosh and training stuff up?

TMO : We had FTE on hosh and was training everything up.

IB: Sounds about right.

Sirken: Did Hosh come to zone in because IB had agro?

IB: Seems like it, not sure how we had agro
TMO : Well we trained shit up and Hosh passed next to Xygoz on your pull while you were waiting to engage.

Sirken: Oh, so the train up gained social agro onto Hoku, and when your puller died it went to zone in for IB?

IB+TMO: Seems like that could be the case

Sirken : Any rebuttals?

TMO: Well they should know they have agro if we lose our train/pull. It's not our fault they didn't derail it or camp out in time.

Sirken, Derubael, Rogean: .................

This very easily could be tmo in the position of IB. If it happens, petition away and get them suspended for the same thing.

Not sure where you're getting your information, but Sirken spoke to us once. During that conversation "social aggro" was never mentioned and neither was Hoshkar. Only druushk was spoken about. After that was disproved, on the next call with deru, hokushin switched gears to hoshkar and druushk was never mentioned. So either staff is full of shit, IB is full of shit or you're all full of shit.

[thieros]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure where you're getting your information, but Sirken spoke to us once. During that conversation "social aggro" was never mentioned and neither was Hoshkar. Only druushk was spoken about. After that was disproved, on the next call with deru, hokushin switched gears to hoshkar and druushk was never mentioned. So either staff is full of shit, IB is full of shit or you're all full of shit.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[ManosMan]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have FTE and training shit around, you are responsible for it. End of story.

So there is zero responsibility for others in the zone to know what's going on or what they should do? That's not a great blanket statement to make...

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by ManosMan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So there is zero responsibility for others in the zone to know what's going on or what they should do? That's not a great blanket statement to make...

You cannot aimlessly fire a gun into a crowd and then blame the victims for not knowing they had a gun pointed at them. Sorry.

[ManosMan]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You cannot aimlessly fire a gun into a crowd and then blame the victims for not knowing they had a gun pointed at them. Sorry.

Man... your analogy is garbage and you're dumb. For one, I wasn't saying the puller had no blame, I was saying there should be some expectations of the others in end game raid zones, as opposed to none, as was suggested. For two, the more proper analogy is standing at your place in a firing range and shooting your target. Then some moron bikes right across the middle of the range and gets pegged. Shooters fault right? No?

The idea that FTE means 100% responsibility for what a mob does is trash. It opens up one extreme of a-holes purposely causing issues and then bitching and on the other hand it opens up zone-ignorant people accidentally causing issues and in both cases the wrong people would get punished...

PS, if you think I'm referring to this specific incident, get a clue. I'm talking about the overall idea of 100% FTE responsibility.

[Kingore]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You cannot aimlessly fire a gun into a crowd and then blame the victims for not knowing they had a gun pointed at them. Sorry.

If I am pointing my gun at a target in a firing range, and some jackass ignores all the warning signs andWalks into the line of fire the story is different. But lets continue to make analogies that have nothing to do with the situation.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Kingore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I am pointing my gun at a target in a firing range, and some jackass ignores all the warning signs andWalks into the line of fire the story is different. But lets continue to make analogies that have nothing to do with the situation.

People standing at the zone in are definitely not down range at a firing range, but thank you for offering a half-assed and useless response.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yet this doesn't match up what the staff talked to with the players in question. It's pretty fucking simple dude. Your puller had FTE on Hosh, he and your guild was responsible for what it does while you train it away. Even in death of a puller. This goes for IB, TMO, BDA, Taken or Intense Cocksuckers of Norrath. If you have FTE and training shit around, you are responsible for it. End of story.

I can make it simple

Sirken: Who had agro on Hosh and training stuff up?

TMO : We had FTE on hosh and was training everything up.

IB: Sounds about right.

Sirken: Did Hosh come to zone in because IB had agro?

IB: Seems like it, not sure how we had agro
TMO : Well we trained shit up and Hosh passed next to Xygoz on your pull while you were waiting to engage.

Sirken: Oh, so the train up gained social agro onto Hoku, and when your puller died it went to zone in for IB?

IB+TMO: Seems like that could be the case

Sirken : Any rebuttals?

TMO: Well they should know they have agro if we lose our train/pull. It's not our fault they didn't derail it or camp out in time.

Sirken, Derubael, Rogean: .................

This very easily could be tmo in the position of IB. If it happens, petition away and get them suspended for the same thing.

So basically years into VP you still don't understand the zone. This is what happens when you GM's have 0 vp experience. (Other than exploiting memblur mechanics sorry Bisch)