Autosplit System: P99 vs Live

[beeshma_nameless]

Originally Posted by Revol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In practice what happens is the casters are medding because they are a little LOM, then puller is out pulling, the rogue is trying to BW up and the bard or ranger is looting everything.

That's a generalization, but that's often what is happening with this new system. Not only do the greedheads get the items, but they also get a bulk of the cash. If the split was more even it would be less of an issue, instead of one more straw on the camels back.

That is true about casters not getting their quota of looting in an FFA situation - where with the classic split it would still even out. What we did in many PUG was give a few gems or so to the casters who were buried in their book most of the time.

I played a human monk and most PUGS would give me PP for my gold/siver/plat often during the grouping so I dont go over the weight limit and hit the AC penalty (was it 14? dont remember).

No means a perfect division of loot, but for me, that was one of the quirks of EQ - grouping was a lot more than just strength in numbers, It identified the players, reputations ingame (for what it is/was worth) - It was very soon before a loot hungry person was known (this was way before the "clerics get all gem drops as they need to buy reagents for symbols" uproars )

My 2cp.

[GypsyGirl]

I love uthgaard. He's my favorite.

Anyway, after reading his giant post it jogged my memory. I 100% remember having main looters (generally the warrior) loot for the entire duration of the group then use /split to evenly distribute the total coinage after the group finished. I don't know if that helps with anything, as didn't read much beyond that, but I definitely remember that being the case in numerous groups.

[Randiesel]

I don't have much input here, as I don't recall EVER playing with an ML, outside of one or two HG groups, but the way I see it, we really have two reasonable options on p99.

a) Implement a downconvert system and re-enable the /split upconvert

b) Rewrite the cash loot tables.

Nothing else makes sense. The ML always got more, but not substantially, and the silly amounts of copper and silver are going to be ridiculous.

Not to mention they will further separate the haves and have-nots. Us broke lowbie players that are new to the server will be destroying almost ALL our cash loot, whereas the higher level players that are looting mainly plat will stay farther ahead.

[Uthgaard]

If there was an upconvert system, you wouldn't be able to do half the quests in the game.

Some of you are acting as if you're at the mercy of the split system, and all common sense and personal accountability have been stripped from you as a result; taking with it, your ability to receive a fair portion of the split.

[Revol]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If there was an upconvert system, you wouldn't be able to do half the quests in the game.

Some of you are acting as if you're at the mercy of the split system, and all common sense and personal accountability have been stripped from you as a result; taking with it, your ability to receive a fair portion of the split.

Erm.. IS THIS SMED?

I don't know what happened lately, but I went from routinely getting GP in groups to getting mostly 0 0 0 0. I would usually get SOMETHING in a group, even when it's just SP and CP. The split message changed so something must have been done.

When I do loot I get like 4gp and smaller coin. Something has to be screwed up somewhere.

How would having an upconvert for cash only effect quests?

[Droop]

I remember the looter getting the lion's share, BUT not by that huge of a margin. You'd still always get close to the same amount when you weren't looting, but the looter did have a little bit better advantage.

Now it seems 90% of the time no one gets anything unless they are ML'r. Have mechanics changed on live at all or are they the same as classic?

[Uthgaard]

There are a series of incorrect assumptions here.

1. The vast majority of the wealth that enters the game, comes from items on corpses, and not coin, by an incredibly large margin.
2. The only really valid point is that coin is getting rounded up. There are very few NPCs in the game that dropped substantial amounts of coin. It is very easy to cause that to happen, without it being rounded up.
3. People have been adapting to these conditions for the last 11 years. If you are broke because you can't get off your duff every once in a while or choose who you group with, it's due to more than the split system, and could be equated to natural selection.
4. It's substantially less work to manually set coin bounds for the few NPCs who dropped substantial coin, and more logical than implementing a series of band-aids on top of band-aids that are being suggested as a result of a nearly non-issue being blown out of proportion.

The more vocal concern is over the individual's ability to get their fair share in various worst case scenarios as a perpetual victim - referring to "the looter" as some sort of hypothetical automaton present in every group, eating everyone else's share of coin while the rest are rendered helpless, unable to loot a corpse themselves.

But there was a very valid point raised about the issue with downconverting, one that would impact all groups negatively. Those who have raised the issue with coin split have cited coin drops as the issue. This has been a pressing enough concern for some of you to write several pages. Identifying a problem is easy. I challenge you to expend similar effort identifying a solution. We all know about giants. List some others.

[Live4Redline]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are a series of incorrect assumptions here.

[*]The vast majority of the wealth that enters the game, comes from items on corpses, and not coin, by an incredibly large margin.

The vast of END GAME wealth is based on items but at the start your living off of coins! And just because me and you don't have to worry about living off of coin drops doesn't mean we can screw the newbies still joining the server.

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[*]The only really valid point is that coin is getting rounded up. There are very few NPCs in the game that dropped substantial amounts of coin. It is very easy to cause that to happen, without it being rounded up.

Where not talking about huge amounts of coins on one mob. We're talking about small amounts of coins on thousands upon thousands of smaller mobs that we camp day after day in six man groups in the bottom of dungeons, where we're only getting 1s after 1s after 1s when we should be getting more.

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[*]People have been adapting to these conditions for the last 11 years. If you are broke because you can't get off your duff every once in a while or choose who you group with, it's due to more than the split system, and could be equated to natural selection.

These conditions where already very barbaric and we went through hell dealing with them in the first place and i just don't want the conditions of this system to be WORSE then in classic because they currently are. If you can make this system match classic I'm down for that... i just don't see it with out changing all the factors in place and that includes the loot tables.

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[*]It's substantially less work to manually set coin bounds for the few NPCs who dropped substantial coin, and more logical than implementing a series of band-aids on top of band-aids that are being suggested as a result of a nearly non-issue being blown out of proportion.

The problem is not one or two mobs, its every mob in the game. Group mobs don't drop a groups worth of coins... plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The more vocal concern is over the individual's ability to get their fair share in various worst case scenarios as a perpetual victim - referring to "the looter" as some sort of hypothetical automaton present in every group, eating everyone else's share of coin while the rest are rendered helpless, unable to loot a corpse themselves.

But there was a very valid point raised about the issue with downconverting, one that would impact all groups negatively. Those who have raised the issue with coin split have cited coin drops as the issue. This has been a pressing enough concern for some of you to write several pages. Identifying a problem is easy. I challenge you to expend similar effort identifying a solution. We all know about giants. List some others.

I'd like to think I've spent a good bit of effort into this and considering it doesn't even really effect me I've probably spent far too much time on it.

The easiest and by far best solution is to divide the mobs total cash amount and reward each member with its fair share, down to the plat, gold, silver, and copper in the same form as it did before patch but with out the ability to up split. There are NO down or adverse factors to that solution other then it not being classic. But its as close to classic as "I" think we can get with out spending more effort into the system then it really deserves.

There are many mechanics on this server that just can't be made to mimic classic like they should. This is one of thous issues that could, but the results are not worth the time and effort it would take. Lets just get it as close as we can with out it being WORSE. If the loot tables are working off a cash value so should the autosplit system.

[Kassel]

Cant we just have autosplit down convert then bring back the group /split upconvert?

[Kenuw]

As I remember it for the example given of :

This means if you have a full 6 person group and the mob drops 5 plat, 13 gold, 3 silver, and 10 copper, everyone but the looter gets 0 plat, 2 gold, 0 silver, and 1 copper, and the looter gets 5 plat, 3 gold, 3 silver, and 5 copper.

Player 1-5 gets 1 plat, Player 6 gets none.
Player 1 gets 3 gold, players 2-6 get 2 gold.
Player 1 gets 3 silver, players 2-6 get 2 silver.
Player 1-4 gets 2 copper, Players 5 and 6 gets 1 copper

Where player 1 is the looter, the rule being that the individual coin levels were round robin'ed, until there was none of that coin type left, and it moved to the next coin.