How is hybrid hate these days?

[Troxx]

A mediocre ranger is a drain on the group. A mediocre bard is also a drain, but when all else fails they can just pulse mana every 3 seconds and do something marginally more productive than a mediocre ranger.

A well played ranger is a great asset, but it's a thankless job that might well go un-noticed.

You won't tank like a tank. You won't dps like a monk or rogue. You won't cc like a bard/ench. That dps you do provide is pretty good though, and if you don't accidentally get aggro and waste heals ... If you use your mana between pulls to top off the non tanks ... If you make sure shit is snared and adds on casters get rooted ... You will pull your weight.

It's similar playing a bard honestly. I pull well but rarely do it. I'd rather the tank bring 2 adds so I can charm one and mez the other and use that down time pulsing 3 rounds of mana and using lute with nivs and hymn to feed 40hp regen a tick to the whole group.

My clerics in a good group rarely need to waste mana on anything but a cheal for the tank.

I might not dps like a dps, but I'll make everyone else's job in the group easier and keep the xp flowing more than enough to make up for the xp penalty I have to deal with until velious. I'll make YOU waste less mana, give YOU more mana in your pool, make YOU dps better, keep the adds off YOU, and keep your health topped off without draining unnecessary mana from whoever is doing the healing.

[iruinedyourday]

Im sorry to say there are many nights where I have sat in silent reverence while a ranger kicked major ass... on behalf of all the good rangers out there this is my public thank you. If you are good at your class, somewhere, someone is very appreciative.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bro I'm sorry that nobody was ever happy with your ranger's tanking on live or beyond. Do some gear research, seek the right group comps, use your spells. You can improve. People were always happy with my tanking.

hmm? like I said, never had problems getting groups on live. I definitely didn't go around trying to pass off my ranger as a tank though, and generally looked for well balanced groups from my friends list, get in on starting times so we didn't face much turnover. And if my friends needed a cleric, I'd happily switch to that when needed. I never bitched about ranger or got into all the "ranger hate" bs, that didn't effect me. Of course though, when on cleric, you see the difference with what a good ranger does and what a bad ranger can do. It's a tough class, it really is. Troxx wrote up a good post btw, can agree with that.

[fastboy21]

daywolf is wrong. most rangers can tank fine. obviously they aren't the number 1 tank class, but so what?

if your grp has a shaman anyone can tank in kc.

if your grp has a decent cleric and the ranger is well geared he can tank in kc. usually its a stop gap between a good grp splitting up and finding a dedicated tank class...and the ranger does the job just fine. there aren't always warriors/pallies/sks lfg.

if you are building a min/max grp then obviously you aren't going to pick ranger as the ideal tank. most of the time, most of us, are just looking to play and have some fun while getting some exp. ranger can fit into those grps just fine---and, to be honest, i wish all grps were like that on p99. what are you racing for? to be sat in static content when velious launches forever? seriously, min/maxers on a static emu server need a reality check.

ps. i've grped with cirocco in kc. he did a better job tanking than most "tank classes" and a better job pulling than most "puller" classes. the biggest reason to find a tank for the grp was so that he could go back to being a dedicated puller.

[Troxx]

Honestly which is a bigger drain on cleric mana?

-a ranger with decent mitigation but a low hp pool
-a warrior who can't hold aggro over the 2 epic rogues

Mana healing rogues is just as draining if not more so as main healing a ranger that doesn't lose aggro. The same holds true for bards who, quite frankly have threat generation higher than arguably anyone else. That slow/snare or even worse the slow/snare/debuff songs generate so much threat that I can't keep a mob permanently slowed unless grouped with a knight who is bringing their A game without having near permanent aggro.

Cheal + real tank is stupidly efficient - but that requires either a knight or a well geared warrior. That warrior will still require a lot of epic rogues to throttle back.

Rangers and bards are not 'tanks'. They can, however, tank - and they hold aggro exceptionally well. Whether or not they should depends entirely on the group ... But it is workable. When a real tank is around - they should be doing everything possible to not waste healer mana.

[sox7d]

I think it's hilarious that there are actually still people who don't believe rangers are the best tanks endgame, excluding raiding of course.

[tanknspank]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-a ranger with decent mitigation but a low hp pool
-a warrior who can't hold aggro over the 2 epic rogues

That's like asking "do you want a non-ideal substitute or do you want a complete waste of space?". Warriors aren't ideal for group tanking due to their hate generation issues. If you have your pick, and you need a group tank, you'll be looking to SK/PAL.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rangers and bards are not 'tanks'. They can, however, tank - and they hold aggro exceptionally well. Whether or not they should depends entirely on the group ... But it is workable. When a real tank is around - they should be doing everything possible to not waste healer mana.

And that is what comes across as 'ranger hate'. Given equal gear/skill/social connection, the knight gets picked as tank. Need DPS? A long list of classes is up for that. Root CC? Again, plenty of choices.

Quite a few classes have xp group roles they will be sought out for. Others are very raid centric, but raiding is a social activity which at least gives them an edge in having guildmates to group with. The ranger is a mix of abilities, none of them unique. So unless you happen to need that specific mix they become a "I'll get the ranger since there's no ____ available" class.

[Troxx]

For a min/max group there is no reason to invite a ranger. I'll grant you that - they bring nothing to the table that other classes don't do better.

EQ is at its best when played socially. Especially on this server where the level will stop at 60 - your xp bar is not a fun meter. Rushing to 60 so you can ...

... Stand in line for your turn at a raid mob?
... Roll and alt?
... ... ... ?

My only real push for leveling is I want my 55 mana song. Beyond that, I actually want to be sub 60 when velious comes out. I'd like to actually do some xp work in velks etc - and I'd rather not have to make that final hell of a push with the 40% xp penalty I currently have.

Any group I form or end up with leader of will gladly take a ranger as long as they don't suck. If the group wants to snub them because they're not the best dps or because of the hybrid penalty, however ... I've left the group in the past and I might consider doing it again. We're all here to have fun. I find it hilarious when the same people will invite a less talented or more poorly geared iksar monk in the same breath. Maybe they aren't aware that an iksar monk carries a higher penalty.

Hopefully that whole penalty garbage will go away soon.

[webrunner5]

I am NOT a Ranger hater. I really like them. I play mine a lot solo. But I mostly play healer classes on here And I F'ing hate healing them. They are a paper tank. They are a total mana sink even for a Cleric. Don't give this shit about how they make great tanks. Maybe up to about level 30 35 they do, after that they are crap, and a nightmare to a healer. End of story. They make damn good pullers in outdoor zones and are pretty damn good at CC, But NOT as tanks. And if you have a Warrior as a tank in your group, which you should, good luck having him or her keeping agro with a Ranger beating on the mob. I pretty much just let the Ranger die, not the rest of the group lol. And a Bard is even worse as a Tank.

[sox7d]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am NOT a Ranger hater. I really like them. I play mine a lot solo. But I mostly play healer classes on here And I F'ing hate healing them. They are a paper tank. They are a total mana sink even for a Cleric. Don't give this shit about how they make great tanks. Maybe up to about level 30 35 they do, after that they are crap, and a nightmare to a healer. End of story. They make damn good pullers in outdoor zones and are pretty damn good at CC, But NOT as tanks. And if you have a Warrior as a tank in your group, which you should, good luck having him or her keeping agro with a Ranger beating on the mob. I pretty much just let the Ranger die, not the rest of the group lol. And a Bard is even worse as a Tank.

ROFL, I play a ranger as my main and I get healed just fine. There is a 22 ac difference between deepwater/blood ember armor and tolan's, armor being negligible as it is and defense skill tests have been parsed to hell and show time and time again that after 200 it does. not. matter.. Stop projecting your bias.