DPS warrior viable?

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actual melee damage done doesn't affect agro (or at any rate it didn't on live), melee agro is (was) calculated on a per swing basis separately from resolving hits/crits/crips/damage.

Two handers have a negative agro modifier, a two hander will get less agro than a dual-wield combo that has the same damage output. In general, avoid weapons with stun and DoT procs if you don't want agro, but straight dd procs don't add much.

Yeah, my bad. I know that threat is based on swings, not sure why it slipped my mind for a minute there.

Is there actually a specific penalty to 2h aggro though, or is it just that the 2h damage bonus isn't big enough compared to 1h damage bonus to make up for the slower swing speed?

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, my bad. I know that threat is based on swings, not sure why it slipped my mind for a minute there.

Is there actually a specific penalty to 2h aggro though, or is it just that the 2h damage bonus isn't big enough compared to 1h damage bonus to make up for the slower swing speed?

The 2h agro malus is there, can't recall who posted it but there's been some testing done.

What I found with my warrior in his 40s, was that I could not hold agro worth a damn with staff of battle unless the other melees in the group were actually good at managing their own (not a common talent amongst pickup group melees on p99). But, with jade mace and silken whip of ensnaring I could hold agro just fine in an average group and near-flawlessly with good groupmates. Note that the jade mace + silken whip combo has somewhere around 80% the damage output of the staff of battle for a mid-40s warrior and none of the weapons had procs (whip doesn't proc 'til 50.)

[captnamazing]

Tecmos is pretty much right. Staff of Battle will give you some sweet cripps 30-50. Get an oggok cleaver if you can, though. That shit is insane.

With the right gear you can definitely stay on par with monks, and if you have a healer who is able to keep you in zerker rage, you'll fucking wreck.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by captnamazing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tecmos is pretty much right. Staff of Battle will give you some sweet cripps 30-50. Get an oggok cleaver if you can, though. That shit is insane.

With the right gear you can definitely stay on par with monks, and if you have a healer who is able to keep you in zerker rage, you'll fucking wreck.

That too. My warrior had a lot of fun zerk-duoing with YumYums (shaman), starting in our 20s. Shaman is awesome partner for zerking because slows on the tougher mobs makes it far safer to swap out some of your tanking gear for more DEX. (AC is (was?) not "broken" until high level, swapping out plate for jewelry in your 20s/30s/40s is painful when you're the guy getting hit.)

[amateur]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actual melee damage done doesn't affect agro (or at any rate it didn't on live), melee agro is (was) calculated on a per swing basis separately from resolving hits/crits/crips/damage.

does this mean bladed thulian claws(5/19) for 100pp will hold agro as well as a lamentation(9/19) for 2.5k pp?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by amateur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

does this mean bladed thulian claws(5/19) for 100pp will hold agro as well as a lamentation(9/19) for 2.5k pp?

The calculation factors in damage. So 5/19 will generate lets say 10 hate per swing. Whereas a 9/19 will generate lets say 18 hate per swing.

[Frug]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actual melee damage done doesn't affect agro (or at any rate it didn't on live), melee agro is (was) calculated on a per swing basis separately from resolving hits/crits/crips/damage.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The calculation factors in damage. So 5/19 will generate lets say 10 hate per swing. Whereas a 9/19 will generate lets say 18 hate per swing.

So does damage (potential OR actual) count, or not? These 2 quotes directly contradict each other.

[leezard]

He meant specifically damage of the weapon in that post. Perhaps it helps to think of it like this..hate is factored by the damage potential before the actual damage is calculated. Each swing generates x agro, separate from how much it actually does in terms of damage

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Frug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So does damage (potential OR actual) count, or not? These 2 quotes directly contradict each other.

There is no contradiction, although my comment was incomplete. I referred to "actual melee damage done", i.e. the number of hit points subtracted from the target after resolving hit/miss and randomizing damage withing the allowed range and applying stats, skills, spell effects, & etc. What I failed to mention in the post you quoted is that the agro calc uses potential damage as represented by the weapon's damage stat.

Unless I'm hopelessly confused and out of touch here, the melee agro calc is based on 2x weapon base damage and is applied each swing regardless of hit/miss/etc. IIRC, the only adjustments that apply to the agro calc are the level-based primary hand damage bonus (all melees/hybrids except bards get this at L28+) and the two-handed weapon agro penalty.

Some examples (assuming that I'm right about primary hand damage bonus applying):
L55 melee/hybrid, rusty dagger main-hand, (3*2)+((55-25)/3) = 16 agro per swing
L40 melee/hybrid, rusty dagger main-hand, (3*2)+((40-25)/3) = 11 agro per swing
L27 melee/hybrid, rusty dagger main-hand, (3*2) = 6 agro per swing
any melee/hybrid, rusty dagger off-hand, (3*2) = 6 agro per swing
any bard/caster, rusty dagger any-hand, (3*2) = 6 agro per swing
L55 melee/hybrid, jade mace main-hand, (9*2)+((55-25)/3) = 28 agro per swing
L40 melee/hybrid, jade mace main-hand, (9*2)+((40-25)/3) = 23 agro per swing
L27 melee/hybrid, jade mace main-hand, (9*2) = 18 agro per swing
any melee/hybrid, jade mace off-hand, (9*2) = 18 agro per swing
any bard/caster, jade mace any-hand, (9*2) = 18 agro per swing

There were some pretty interesting tests run on live back in the day, and afaict the melee agro on p99 is based on what was learned & posted about then.

The above is only referring to melee agro, spell (and proc) agro is different.

[amateur]

for agro would a pair of jade maces be preferred over a some yak clubs at lvl 40?