Game Mechanics: Melee PvP on Project Red99

[Potus]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Joust backstab worked because of this on live. You did not have to face.

Pretty sure joust backstab worked because the client got confused about the rogue not being behind and facing the target.

Kind of the same way it gets confused about casters stopping and casting spells, it takes an extra half second for the server to register where the player character is in the world.

Both were bugs but Verant/Sony never got around to ever fixing it.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Potus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure joust backstab worked because the client got confused about the rogue not being behind and facing the target.

Kind of the same way it gets confused about casters stopping and casting spells, it takes an extra half second for the server to register where the player character is in the world.

Both were bugs but Verant/Sony never got around to ever fixing it.

This. It is in no way classic for melee to be able to hit players with auto or special attacks while not facing the target. Joust backstab worked in classic if you could time the backstab perfectly while running through the player. Eh... but I never played a rogue during classic, and I was playing on 56k anyway... so my perception of jousting in general during that time is a bit odd.

Nearly positive you should not be able to freely auto attack players that are standing directly behind you. Not during classic, not during now... shit is buggy as hell. Gives melee a huge advantage, especially when coupled with the seemingly massive melee attack range of players.

[Colgate]

Originally Posted by hivemind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and the fact that your combat log gets spammed with "You cannot see your target" as you are swinging (and hitting) them makes the situation seem even more suspect.

probably a product of this being the titanium client

[Softcore PK]

Hitbox was always 360 degrees on live. It's a little too big, though.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Had rune 5 and 1100hp. Got pk'd by a rogue in FV - 1 miss throughout the whole fight. That's a little over the top. Even on a clothie

[Nirgon]

Since they're fudging ac/atk in pve to fit the current formula... expect this to be broken.


Way I'd think to go about it is get logs on live with chars of varying level ranges melee'ing each other with gear obtainable on P99 -> get that behavior duplicated here -> tweak pve values from there (should turn out to be actual values).

Until then, its neva gonna be right unless flat miss chances etc are just coded into pvp..

It's not horrible but its very high

[Potus]

Any one have some classic pvp screens/logs? Should be able to get a rough estimate of how often people were hitting.

I remember people missing a lot and I was a fragile clothie.

[Nirgon]

Depends if they had shielding / buffs etc..

This should all parse out the same on live with the same items/levels with 0 AA.

[Nirgon]

One thing is for sure. I will absolutely concede this after testing backstab jousting.


The range where you can hit a player is about 4-5x too long. It is absolutely way too big and trivializes jousting/chasing mechanics in pvp.


I'd be happy to demonstrate this for a dev with a rogue in game.


On live from classic even into Kunark, it has always been the case that rogue backstab checks 2 things and only 2 things when hitting another player:

1 - am I behind the target
2 - am I in range of the target




Potus's eyes only:
This does make pvping on casters easier because melee can reach you from too far away here, at least with special attacks (hi bash) and definitely backstab you way too easily.

[Nirgon]

So if you never turned to face them how did it work? It should be possible without turning to face but the range (like I said) is 5x too large.