Game Mechanics: Rogue hide

[Scrubosaur]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No I completely get it. You want sneak+hide to work like you're always behind the mob. Rogean knows it isn't the case. Glhf going over his head. Its not going to be shroud of stealth, accept it.

This guy. He must have had some pull with the devs back in the day. Now it seems like he gets his jollies off of trolling the server with undocumented tweaks he would like to see because he either "he knows someone" or he "remembers how it should be". If you don't believe me take a look at his channeling thread, necro recourse thread, or his comments in this thread.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Scrubosaur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This guy. He must have had some pull with the devs back in the day. Now it seems like he gets his jollies off of trolling the server with undocumented tweaks he would like to see because he either "he knows someone" or he "remembers how it should be". If you don't believe me take a look at his channeling thread, necro recourse thread, or his comments in this thread.

The funny thing is, when it was tested on eqmac or in untouched areas on Live... it is discovered I'm almost always right [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. I'm right about necro recourse and channeling too... as channeling will eventually be investigated and fixed by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

You aren't going to get shroud of stealth level hide/sneak here, its not classic. Be behind the mob or be seen.

Honestly I did look high and low and on safehouse/wayback machine. Truthfully, I would want it to be implemented correctly, even if I was wrong about my assertion and I'd own up to being wrong.

But the truth is, there would be loads of information saying "just have a rogue sneak through to check if the mob is up as it cannot be tracked from the zone in" or "have a rogue pull everyone's corpses after a wipe"... but as it turns out... all the pulling of corpses is being done by monks (hi2u 0 cast time FD) or necro coffins in raid zones and all the checking for mobs being up is done by trackers. If rogues were able to very easily just hide/sneak in front of things that could ordinarily see invisible and get past them, there'd be MUCH more data about it. Just like how I said there should be much more about necros being able to dispel the recourse from their healing... it just wasn't possible.

My evidence is based on the rogue epic part of hate, which has the most information. It basically says be careful because some things can see you and some can't, same as invis/itu combo.

Again, I'd rather the classic implementation goes in and I'm wrong.. than it doesn't and I can pretend to be right. There's always a strong following of people coming after my posts when the change inconveniences them. But as we all well know, this isn't the making friends section, this is the make it classic section.

Oh, and it is a fix not a nerf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[Dullah]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No I completely get it. You want sneak+hide to work like you're always behind the mob. Rogean knows it isn't the case. Glhf going over his head. Its not going to be shroud of stealth, accept it.

Sorry dude, you're wrong about this one. Aside from my very vivid memories of rogues dragging corpses to the zone-in in sebilis and every other dungeon in the game as well as ganking our xp groups in the disco (neither of these things are possible on P99), the evidence that rogue hide was more than just inv+ivu is like 10:1 to that off opposing evidence. Theres numerous references to complete lists of mobs that see 60 rogue hide during this era and you could p much count them on one hand.

Rogean was like 10 yrs old during this era, gtfo of here with that shit.

[Tuffpuppy]

Originally Posted by Dullah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry dude, you're wrong about this one. Aside from my very vivid memories of rogues dragging corpses to the zone-in in sebilis and every other dungeon in the game as well as ganking our xp groups in the disco (neither of these things are possible on P99), the evidence that rogue hide was more than just inv+ivu is like 10:1 to that off opposing evidence. Theres numerous references to complete lists of mobs that see 60 rogue hide during this era and you could p much count them on one hand.

Rogean was like 10 yrs old during this era, gtfo of here with that shit.

Lolno... Monks were the primary corpse pullers in classic through Velious. Especially in places like Sebilis. This fix seems pretty spot on from my recollection. In devs we trust.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Dullah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogean was like 10 yrs old during this era, gtfo of here with that shit.

You play a rogue here, Rogean presumably doesn't. Hhhhhmmm.

[Rhambuk]

[/QUOTE=Ele;1538310] Unlike the spell "Invisibility", sneak-hide has unlimited duration until turned off (like Hide), a spell is cast on the rogue by a spellcaster/bard, or the rogue zones.[QUOTE]

I hated this

[Velerin]

I don't think he's saying that. Think all the rogues are just saying the same thing. There are two levels of see invis in mobs, reg see invis and see invis+hide. There were definitely see invis mobs that didn't see hide. Sol B kobolds for instance did not see hide, but sol B bats saw both. Safehouse was one of the best EQ resources back in the day and I trust most the stuff on there.
I don't even play a rogue here but I feel bad for the ones that do after last nerf.

[Scrubosaur]

Check all the links in this thread and it is pretty clear what saw through hide/sneak and what didn't. In fact since you are talking about Hate the links specifically state that the Loathing Lich's see through hide/sneak. And there are posts also stating that mobs have a minute chance of seeing through hide/sneak. On p99 there is no minute chance, in fact there is a huge chance that mobs will see through hide/sneak in almost every dungeon. If that part of p99 is broken (the enormous amount of see invis/hide/sneak mobs) then maybe that is what needs to be fixed. Maybe there weren't enough see invis/sneak/hide mobs around back in 1999-2001 to warrant a discussion on the topic. But as previously stated in the safehouse.com forums there were specific mobs that saw through hide/sneak as well as a minute chance at a random mob being able to see through hide/sneak.

[Scrubosaur]

More info off of Alla explaining rogue sneak/hide :

"At lower levels, sneaking causes rogues to walk or run very slowly. At level 51, you begin to speed up (gradually with each level) to an unnoticable difference at level 60.

Even with a well developed ability with both skills, there are still a number of NPCs that can see a sneak/hidden rogue, such as liches and banshees in Plane of Hate."

Once again it mentions mobs in Plane of Hate that we have already listed as being able to see through Hide/Sneak. It does not mentions kobolds in solb, tons of frogs in seb, or all the casters in sola. It uses an example we already know to be true as per safehouse forums. It also states that rogue speed should increase to almost normal movement in 60 which we don't have on p99.

[Scrubosaur]

I can understand how people say that monks did the corpse dragging. At least on my server, monks outnumbered rogues probably 25 to 1. Our guild had only 1 raiding rogue and like 10 monks. I am not sure if it was like that on other servers, but it was on Tholuxe Paells.