Should I retire my 60 wizard?

[Erydan Ouragan]

Putting the perspective of DPM on a wizard is absurd.

You don't get a wizard for DPS, you get a wizard because they're a safety valve. They're like your car insurance, you only realize how good it is the day an accident happens. When your cleric or CC goes suddenly LD or accidental overpull or weird glitchy pathing happens and you suddenly need THIS mob do die RIGHT NOW, it's then you realize wizards are made of pure brutal awesomeness.

No other class in the game can unload as fast and with that power, not even close.

With evac and the best burst in the game, wizards are the CEOs of Wipe Prevention Ltd.

I thought that wizards sucked and were just an afk xp sponge until i grouped with a guy truly amazing and now i'm converted, wizards get a priority spot in my groups any time possible.

It's a shame there's so few of them, though.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by innocent51 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizard are the best raid dps from Classic to Call of the Forsaken.

14 years of pure ownage, never challenged. Velious (with banes) being the arguably (some people will claim pre nerf Beams Era was even better) the Zenith of Wizard domination.

Wizard is hands down the best raid dps up until velious. Rogues and monks will dominate velious dps since the fights are a lot longer and wizards will likely be oom halfway through most fights.


That is of course your raid has like 20 wizards.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When your cleric or CC goes suddenly LD

In which case a backup healer/shaman/second CC (Bard + Chanter for example) is still more effective than a "safety valve" that can deal, at most (if we ignore what happens if he gets aggro from unloading his mana), about 3.1 x total mana (Estimated at 2700ish x 3 so 8100... still pitiful compared to what a necro who absolutely bombs dots and feigns can do) prior to 60.

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

or accidental overpull

Second CC class is better. Even two enchanters in the same group is better still than a chanter and a wizard.

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

need THIS mob do die RIGHT NOW

Have you actually calculated the burst of a Mag pet + mag nukes or Necro pet + necro nukes or chanter charmed pet + chanter nukes or druid charmed pet (if you happen to be so lucky, i.e. plane of hate) + druid nukes?

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

wizards are made of pure brutal awesomeness.

If brutal awesomeness is the total HP level of the weakest mobs in seb for an entire mana bar.

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No other class in the game can unload as fast and with that power, not even close.

I wonder if the numbers actually bear this out.

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With evac and the best burst in the game, wizards are the CEOs of Wipe Prevention Ltd.

That's chanter/bard/druid/shaman.

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizard is hands down the best raid dps up until velious. Rogues and monks will dominate velious dps since the fights are a lot longer and wizards will likely be oom halfway through most fights.

That is of course your raid has like 20 wizards.

It's the last part of a fight where wizards are needed; CH from unstunnable/unmezzable mobs is kind of an annoying problem in velious. You need a massive amount of damage in the last minute or two of a fight. But yeah, rogues and monks over the course of the entire fight.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In which case a backup healer/shaman/second CC (Bard + Chanter for example) is still more effective than a "safety valve" that can deal, at most (if we ignore what happens if he gets aggro from unloading his mana), about 3.1 x total mana (Estimated at 2700ish x 3 so 8100... still pitiful compared to what a necro who absolutely bombs dots and feigns can do) prior to 60.

Ok.

Second CC class is better. Even two enchanters in the same group is better still than a chanter and a wizard.

I guess you're right on that.

Have you actually calculated the burst of a Mag pet + mag nukes or Necro pet + necro nukes or chanter charmed pet + chanter nukes or druid charmed pet (if you happen to be so lucky, i.e. plane of hate) + druid nukes?

No but i have calculated that when Venus aligns with the second moon of the third month of an even year, very situational things happen once in a while.

If brutal awesomeness is the total HP level of the weakest mobs in seb for an entire mana bar.

Well considering the weakest mob in seb is a lvl 41 Froglok Kor Shaman with 2091hp, i'd say you're wrong on this one. Wizards can't 2-shot Trak though.

I wonder if the numbers actually bear this out.

I wonder too. I'm going to cross-post to the math forums and get back to you.

That's chanter/bard/druid/shaman.

Possible, but i think cleric/cleric/cleric/cleric would even be better.



I guess you were right man, i viewed wizards as suck, then awesome and now they're back to suck. If i was OP i'd reroll a chanterdruidbardshaman with a hate pet that can necrodotbomb and FD.

I'd still log on the wiz to port for plat, even though druids are better because they have sow.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Putting the perspective of DPM on a wizard is absurd.

You don't get a wizard for DPS, you get a wizard because they're a safety valve. They're like your car insurance, you only realize how good it is the day an accident happens. When your cleric or CC goes suddenly LD or accidental overpull or weird glitchy pathing happens and you suddenly need THIS mob do die RIGHT NOW, it's then you realize wizards are made of pure brutal awesomeness.

No other class in the game can unload as fast and with that power, not even close.

With evac and the best burst in the game, wizards are the CEOs of Wipe Prevention Ltd.

I thought that wizards sucked and were just an afk xp sponge until i grouped with a guy truly amazing and now i'm converted, wizards get a priority spot in my groups any time possible.

It's a shame there's so few of them, though.

BiS rogues can do 4k in 12 seconds with a perfect duelist. Averaging closer to 3k. On a lure only mob, wizards are only doing about 1500-1800 in that time period. Rogues are just god tier dps :P

[Clark]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BiS rogues can do 4k in 12 seconds with a perfect duelist. Averaging closer to 3k. On a lure only mob, wizards are only doing about 1500-1800 in that time period. Rogues are just God tier dps :P

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[fastboy21]

you mean...EQ classes aren't balanced equally? omg, sound the alarm...

the only thing worth mentioning is that a good wizard who logs in wanting to help out and is a cool guy is better than a shitty chanter/bard/rogue/monk/etc who doesn't log in to help others out and is a jerk.

so, as it should in a role-playing game, it really depends on the person behind the toon.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you mean...EQ classes aren't balanced equally? omg, sound the alarm...

the only thing worth mentioning is that a good wizard who logs in wanting to help out and is a cool guy is better than a shitty chanter/bard/rogue/monk/etc who doesn't log in to help others out and is a jerk.

so, as it should in a role-playing game, it really depends on the person behind the toon.

That's the best post in this thread.

Real power in EQ isn't your gear or your money or even your class. It's your social circle. It's who you know and who knows you.

If you're a nice, helpful and fun to be around with kind of person, people are going to remember you, you're going to get added on friend lists, you're going to get invites.

If you get in a group and don't even say "thanks for the invite" and stay silent the whole time you're there, then you become another_dude00 to them. This is not a game with 8 minutes instances with people you're never going to see again. You're probably going to kill orcs with them for a few hours, get to know them. Start conversations. Have a genuine interest in what they're saying. If you make the social effort, it will pay off tremendously later. Then they see your name in ooc stating you're LFG, they're not going to calculate your DPM compared to the sustained monk DPS with Celestial Fists active or whatever, they're going to remember you're a cool, funny and interesting guy to group with and if they know they will have a good time being with you for the next few hours, you get in front of the list, guaranteed.

Of course you're going to be rejected by the min/maxing elitists because your gear isn't BiS, but they're a very small minority, so they don't really count.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well considering the weakest mob in seb is a lvl 41 Froglok Kor Shaman with 2091hp, i'd say you're wrong on this one. Wizards can't 2-shot Trak though.

I overestimated their life, but it's not as low as 2091. I stumbled onto a file called "EQSpawns.xls" three or four years ago and all of its numbers have been accurate so far (min level/max level, min hp/max hp are the final #'s):

froglok kor shaman Ruins of Sebilis 42 44 4194 4234
froglok jin wizard Ruins of Sebilis 43 46 5855 5915
froglok jin shaman Ruins of Sebilis 43 47 5835 5935
sebilite golem, a Ruins of Sebilis 45 49 7199 9530
froglok bok wizard Ruins of Sebilis 46 49 7914 7994
froglok dar knight Ruins of Sebilis 43 50 5855 7994
froglok bok knight Ruins of Sebilis 46 50 7914 7994
froglok bok shaman Ruins of Sebilis 46 50 7934 8014
iksar necromancer, an Ruins of Sebilis 46 50 7914 7994
froglok krup knight Ruins of Sebilis 48 52 9510 9610
froglok krup shaman Ruins of Sebilis 48 52 9530 9610
froglok krup wizard Ruins of Sebilis 50 52 9550 9610
myconid priest Ruins of Sebilis 51 53 11544 11699
myconid warrior Ruins of Sebilis 50 54 11274 11724
myconid reaver Ruins of Sebilis 52 56 13206 13651
froglok zol knight Ruins of Sebilis 44 44 4234 4234
skeletal champion Ruins of Sebilis 46 46 5306 5306
krup ghoul knight Ruins of Sebilis 47 47 10828 10828
dar ghoul knight Ruins of Sebilis 47 47 10828 10828
leprous scarab, a Ruins of Sebilis 48 48 7954 7974
skeletal crusader Ruins of Sebilis 49 49 7974 7974
skeletal champion Ruins of Sebilis 50 50 7994 7994
leprous scarab Ruins of Sebilis 50 50 9570 9570
skeletal duke Ruins of Sebilis 51 51 10411 10411
skeletal baron Ruins of Sebilis 51 51 10411 10411
spectral harbinger Ruins of Sebilis 51 51 5246 5246
froglok ilis shaman Ruins of Sebilis 53 53 12279 12279
froglok ilis wizard Ruins of Sebilis 53 53 12259 12259
froglok ilis knight Ruins of Sebilis 53 53 12259 12279
myconid adept Ruins of Sebilis 54 54 13616 13616
froglok reet knight Ruins of Sebilis 55 55 12259 12279
froglok reet wizard Ruins of Sebilis 55 55 12259 12279
froglok reet shaman Ruins of Sebilis 55 55 12279 12279
sebilite juggernaut Ruins of Sebilis 57 57 16459 16479
sebilite protector Ruins of Sebilis 60 60 20050 20050
Trakanon Ruins of Sebilis 65 65 32000 32000

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess you were right man, i viewed wizards as suck, then awesome and now they're back to suck. If i was OP i'd reroll a chanterdruidbardshaman with a hate pet that can necrodotbomb and FD.

If you don't want to have a serious discussion, that's fine. Just admit you hadn't actually analyzed it; you'd just said "omg a wizard just used 6 minutes worth of meditation and 0 DPS to take off 60% of a mob's life, that clearly is absolutely unique and is irreplaceable". Or say nothing. I don't mind, i'm just giving you an analysis that it appeared that you hadn't considered.

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you mean...EQ classes aren't balanced equally? omg, sound the alarm...

the only thing worth mentioning is that a good wizard who logs in wanting to help out and is a cool guy is better than a shitty chanter/bard/rogue/monk/etc who doesn't log in to help others out and is a jerk.

so, as it should in a role-playing game, it really depends on the person behind the toon.

True statement.

The best class in this game is ANY class that is played well by a GREAT player. I have been AMAZED at how good once in a great while a player shows up in a group and is just F'ing awesome. It is a thing of beauty to watch. The rest of the group can almost go AFK and things roll along. That is what makes it here.

So if you can strive to be the best god damn Wizard on P1999 you will get in any top end group and guild on here. You would sure be welcome in mine. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]