Raid question - helping other guilds.

[Valere]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see where this becomes an issue. If two Class-C guilds raid together, they are subject to a bag limit rule together. If Class-C raids with Class-R(otation), how is anyone else affected, as Class-R has a rotation in place?

I imagine that a Class-R guild, like Doljorn was could raid with a Class-C guild, but the members of Class-C couldn't be eligible for any loot. That was the case when Imba was main-tanking for Doljorn (to whatever extent that lasted).

It would be nice to help blooming Class R guilds out with mobs they are having trouble with, but as a Class C member it's just too risky that some nerd will try to fraps/petition you to get you or your guild penalized because he's mad/sad/bad.

[Danth]

You know perfectly well what the issue is Ella. Some folks don't like seeing other guilds get help because they want those other guilds to fail so their own guild can swoop in and collect more loot.

The class system strikes me as incredibly poorly designed. Class R in particular seems doomed to eventually fail as population increases. Too many folks are trying for a piece of too small a pie. Those guilds are already eyeballing ways to preserve what small rate of kills they have and try to rule-lawyer each other out of raid kills.

Danth

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You know perfectly well what the issue is Ella.

Danth

I guess it sounds more to me like you're expecting the problem to come from within Class-R and not Class-C? Is that correct?

I don't think Class-C members would mind helping Class-R secure kills for nothing in return; I know if asked to help, I personally wouldn't mind - I wouldn't mind raid leading for those without experience either.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Too many folks are trying for a piece of too small a pie. Those guilds are already eyeballing ways to preserve what small rate of kills they have and try to rule-lawyer each other out of raid kills.

At least they have a slice now. And the eventual R-class infighting will be entertaining. Win win for everyone.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see where this becomes an issue. If two Class-C guilds raid together, they are subject to a bag limit rule together. If Class-C raids with Class-R(otation), how is anyone else affected, as Class-R has a rotation in place?

I imagine that a Class-R guild, like Doljorn was could raid with a Class-C guild, but the members of Class-C couldn't be eligible for any loot. That was the case when Imba was main-tanking for Doljorn (to whatever extent that lasted).

I feel the same way, which is why I'm just making sure there are no like, loop-holes here that could be used in a negative way against people in class R who want to do some raiding with class C people.

[Scikala]

Holy fuck are things way too complicated/political for a fifteen year old game.

[Ahldagor]

make one big guild with a triumvirate for leadership, and wah lah you have all guild issues solved.

[Kekephee]

I think an important question to ask is, why is one guild helping another? If you have a guild that isn't capable of killing a mob, and so recruits help from a more capable guild, or if you have a guild that is capable of killing the mob and just for fun brings along someone who's in a different guild, those seem to me to be two very different things. I don't think that affects lockout at all, but imo it's a pretty important distinction to make.

One option- a capable guild helping a less capable guild- involves goodwill and, ultimately, the more capable guild giving up a chance at loot to help another guild out. No matter how you slice it- whether you look at it from the angle of, if <Not So Great> gets the loot from Master Yael, then <Super Stars> doesn't, so <Super Stars> has an incentive to not help and in choosing to do so chooses to give that loot up, or if you look at it from the angle of <Super Stars> are now locked out on that mob, they are giving something up. In this case, lockout makes perfect sense.

On the other hand, if there's one or two guys from <Super Stars> who have a buddy in <Not So Great> who needs an epic piece that his guild can't get him and choose to help the guild out, that seems to be something different. Personally, I think this is a bad idea- first of all, there are most definitely people in <Super Stars> who could have that epic piece themselves, as not a single guild on this server is 100% epic'd. Second, this sets a precedent that ultimately leads to, "hey <Super Stars> I'll pay you 100,000 platinum to let me loot Ragefire- which, if that's a good or bad thing is really a completely different conversation.

[Morgander]

My biggest question then right now is, if a class R member raids a rotation class C mob, does that class R guild get raid suspended for attacking a class C raid mob?

If not, then I suppose there's no issue here. I just really want to know so I can help my friends more without fear of getting my guild in trouble.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My biggest question then right now is, if a class R member raids a rotation class C mob, does that class R guild get raid suspended for attacking a class C raid mob?

If not, then I suppose there's no issue here. I just really want to know so I can help my friends more without fear of getting my guild in trouble.

If there are enough R members raiding a C mob then the R guild becomes a C guild because of those selfish members [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]