Game Mechanics: sneak pull

[Daldaen]

While we are on the topic of flight times of ranged items... It should also be mentioned that often times ranged items when fired would get lost in geometry and not even attempt to connect with the target (which would result in no agro).

This was most prevalent in areas where mobs are close to walls. Specifically when mobs are being corner tanked, Rangers could not land arrows on these mobs even if they were a large sized mob. The arrows would simply poof and never connect on a hit because the mob was in a corner.

[Daldaen]

Monkly Business June 2002 (1month post Sneak change)

okay ijusth, with sneak + thrown weapon pulling, there is no need to FD, like at all. It's a huge time saver, as you aren't waiting on FD to recycle for the split, basically you reduce the range at which mobs will respond you're attack on the one you're tagging, it does not completely eliminate it, you're level will effect the agro range ( as always ), but it will get reduced by use of sneak.



It used to be that using a thrown weapon broke sneak, and you have to rehit it really fast to get this method to work ( so you needed to be sneaking again by the time the weapon actually connected meaning you needed a weapon with a pretty good range ). With the changes so that throwing doesn't break sneak, that is no longer the case, makes this a LOT eaiser to use, even with reltively short range weaopns like a shattering hammer or normal throwing stars.

A few things from this.

Yes, Ranged did break sneak before the Luclin patch.
Sneak should function like a Lull (where it REDUCES range, not completely eliminates... doesn't do that currently here).

Sneak should be useful for pulling but it should not be a /easybutton that allows you to single a mob from a pack of 10. There needs to be *some* distance between the mobs and they need to have their backs to you.

You should also have to time your throwing -> sneaking -> throwing item landing correctly. We could also use a timed throwing item fix while we are at it.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Monkly Business June 2002 (1month post Sneak change)



A few things from this.

Yes, Ranged did break sneak before the Luclin patch.
Sneak should function like a Lull (where it REDUCES range, not completely eliminates... doesn't do that currently here).

Sneak should be useful for pulling but it should not be a /easybutton that allows you to single a mob from a pack of 10. There needs to be *some* distance between the mobs and they need to have their backs to you.

You should also have to time your throwing -> sneaking -> throwing item landing correctly. We could also use a timed throwing item fix while we are at it.

pras

[Raev]

That's a great find Daldaen. When I talk to people like Cobblestone who monked on live they assure me they did not use sneak. The new 270 degree sneak radius has really trivialized splitting in my opinion: Rogues can split most camps in Sebilis, and raid monking is pretty trivial: generate huge train, sneak pull, profit. So it sounds like attacking breaking sneak + short pause while throwing + Haynar's increased blur chance on multiple feigns is going to make this shit a lot more classic.

Here are some other posts from that thread that back you up:

Originally Posted by Sept 2000

I saw mention on a rogue board that if you attack with a thrown weapon, and press sneak before it hits, then you can split a spawn.

Originally Posted by October 2000

Sneak pulling is essentially a myth. It was thought for a while that you could use a range weapon (bow, shurikan, whatever) in conjunction with sneak to pull one mob from a social group. This does not work. Sometimes only one will come, but that happens if sneak is used or not. Rangers used to believe that high archery skill was the cause

It's called lag

Originally Posted by October 2000

When you attack, even with a range weapon, the sneak effect is broken. ID works differently, because if you fail the skill you never attack and sneak is not broken.

Originally Posted by November 2000

Take a peak out and see the positioning of all the Minos. There is 1 mino that is just near the mino elder pit. He was always my first victim. I walk up slowly! into his aggro range seeing as he faces the direction of my pull spot. Before I even get to melee range he will move to atack you as you enter his SMALLER (due to sneak) aggro range. At this point BACK UP ASAP into your pull spot. Once he hits you he will break your sneak but you will most likely be out of aggro range of other minos by then. If your fast enough you will only get that 1 mino.

In other words sneak pulls work 100% when you don't attack.

Originally Posted by August 2001

I did finally get around to trying out the sneak ranged pulling stuff, once i got the range 100 summonable shruiken, it does work... kinda.

As we know 100 range is not enough for this.

Originally Posted by June 2002

okay ijusth, with sneak + thrown weapon pulling, there is no need to FD, like at all. It's a huge time saver, as you aren't waiting on FD to recycle for the split, basically you reduce the range at which mobs will respond you're attack on the one you're tagging, it does not completely eliminate it, you're level will effect the agro range ( as always ), but it will get reduced by use of sneak.

It used to be that using a thrown weapon broke sneak, and you have to rehit it really fast to get this method to work ( so you needed to be sneaking again by the time the weapon actually connected meaning you needed a weapon with a pretty good range ). With the changes so that throwing doesn't break sneak, that is no longer the case, makes this a LOT eaiser to use, even with reltively short range weaopns like a shattering hammer or normal throwing stars.

Verdict: +1 Classic Points for Daldaen

[Raev]

So from a difficulty standpoint,

• You have to be on the ball and press sneak really quickly
• Sneak does not always work, which means occasionally rogues get to die (5%?) and monks will have to FD about 1/3 of the time
• Sneak aggro radius should not be zero, so occasionally you should get more than 1 if the mobs are close. If you have a huge train, you should definitely get more than one.

That sounds fairly awesome.

[Nirgon]

Classic EQ requiring skill confirmed.

Pretty cited 4 this, probably in next patch after this one?

8)

[Haynar]

So let me get this right.

Attacking should break sneak. Including range attack.

There should be a delay for the hit.

So drop sneak. Ranged attack. Hit sneak before ranged hits. If good sneak, bingo. Otherwise die for rogue. Or FD for monk trying it.

We currently have easy mode sneak pulling, which isnt classic?

H

[Nirgon]

If the range attacks scores damage, break sneak. If it misses, do not break sneak but grab mob.

Lull style range agro on pulled mob. Thus the need to "split" the mobs at least enough. Vindi pulls are a "classic" (pun intended) example of l2p for monks.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Guide

It used to be that using a thrown weapon broke sneak, and you have to rehit it really fast to get this method to work ( so you needed to be sneaking again by the time the weapon actually connected meaning you needed a weapon with a pretty good range )

It seems any attack should break sneak, but if you are very quick you can resneak before the ranged weapon lands (right now ranged weapons land instantly I believe).

If you are sneaking, mobs should still assist aggro even if you are behind them if they are close enough to the targeted mob, i.e. it should function like a lull style spell on the others. If you calm a mob and run close enough it will still engage. The question is how much to reduce the aggro radius.

[Buellen]

Hello

Not sure if sneak has been changed here on p1999 since i tested this on a monk i was leveling in swamp of no hope late 2013.


EDIT: here is link to my testing of sneak pulling post : http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=129821


All the mobs from the group you are pulling must be facing away from you so you are in their back arc. sneak did drop on throwing or firing an arrow (tested with a ranger friend).

as long as the mob are in the above said position. you will pull single mob every time. IF you are not in the back arc of any one mob in the group you are puling from you will agro not only the target you shot at but also the mob that WAS NOT in the back arc. This will generally cause the rest of the group to come also.

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The problem on p1999 when it comes to having to hit sneak again before your shot hits come is that THEIR IS NO FLIGHT TIME FOR thrown or missile weapons. so even if you hit sneak again after the shot at that point the mobs will have you on their agro list and come tear you a new one.