Game Mechanics: Pets don't hold hate like they should: Copious amounts of EVIDENCE

[Velerin]

Great evidence Baalzy. I started on this server some 8 months ago and have been bumping these pet aggro threads every chance I get. I love pet classes, still play mage as main here, but they are so borked. Lousy aggro, don't cast nearly enough, etc.. I just wish some dev will address this one someday. Even if they just say "suck it, we don't like pets. We aren't changing anything." and I'll stop worrying about it and probably switch to the best p99 pet class, enchanter.

[Mirana]

Bump for great justice.

I know this doesn't serve as "evidence," but I remember playing a mage back on live in 2000 and would pull with my level 8 bolt spell, hit something 2 times before it got to me and never had aggro problems.

Pet aggro is most definitely broken.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Mirana [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bump for great justice.

I know this doesn't serve as "evidence," but I remember playing a mage back on live in 2000 and would pull with my level 8 bolt spell, hit something 2 times before it got to me and never had aggro problems.

Pet aggro is most definitely broken.

You bumped a thread that had the last post 20 min ago? Seriously?

Clearly you have a grasp on how to get us to revisit an issue.

Pet aggro was nerfed because they had become the prefered tank for raids. It might be possible to make some adjustments.

Haynar

[Asap]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet aggro was nerfed because they had become the prefered tank for raids. It might be possible to make some adjustments.

Haynar

While I understand something had to be done to prevent pets tanking raid targets, it sucks that pet classes were affected in regards to soloing, mages more specifically. I can't nuke a target unless the mob is at 40% hp for fear of pulling aggro off my pet.

I appreciate you addressing the issue and possibly working towards a fix in the future

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You bumped a thread that had the last post 20 min ago? Seriously?

Clearly you have a grasp on how to get us to revisit an issue.

Pet aggro was nerfed because they had become the prefered tank for raids. It might be possible to make some adjustments.

Haynar

Thank you Haynar. I would suggest, if you're going to go with a non-classic implementation, you do something similar to the Rule of 4 that Nilbog posted. Maybe up it from 4 to 6 and have it only count actual PCs. This way a 6 mage xp party would still work, but it would make taking out OOA with nothing but pets impossible (pretty sure 6 mages, unless epic'd, couldn't summon fast enough/long enough to down OOA).

I can understand not wanting to let classic mechanics completely trivialize raid content, but the current implementation is hugely detrimental to all aspects of pet-caster play.

[Mirana]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You bumped a thread that had the last post 20 min ago? Seriously?

Clearly you have a grasp on how to get us to revisit an issue.

Pet aggro was nerfed because they had become the prefered tank for raids. It might be possible to make some adjustments.

Haynar

No idea why my post was met with such hostility, it's like you took it as a personal attack. No need to be rude and disrespectful. I meant nothing by it, just wanted to share my experience.

I appreciate all the hard work you guys do.

[Asap]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet aggro was nerfed because they had become the prefered tank for raids. It might be possible to make some adjustments.

Haynar

So H, want to discuss the adjustments that might be made regarding pet aggro? I understand you have a ton of stuff on your plate, but I'd imagine a broken class has high priority.

[Iumuno]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet aggro was nerfed because they had become the prefered tank for raids. It might be possible to make some adjustments.

Haynar

I missed that post.

Could you flag some mobs to ignore pets entirely?

[Nirgon]

I do know my necro pal who solo'd on live until 50 had to use fear even with a compliment of dots because the pet would get aggro otherwise.

Dots for sure were Venom of Snake + Blood Boil + Dooming Darkness -> pet could still get aggro off, even without taunt.

Not sure how this applies to raid mobs.

Not sure how this applies to having a pet tank for a rogue... we just never tried to do things like that.

Not sure exact threat values but it appears pets need a significant aggro boost here from my clickings around on a few chars. How much? Should it be damage based? Numbers of attacks based? Dunno that either, sorry.

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do know my necro pal who solo'd on live until 50 had to use fear even with a compliment of dots because the pet would get aggro otherwise.

Dots for sure were Venom of Snake + Blood Boil + Dooming Darkness -> pet could still get aggro off, even without taunt.

Not sure how this applies to raid mobs.

Not sure how this applies to having a pet tank for a rogue... we just never tried to do things like that.

Not sure exact threat values but it appears pets need a significant aggro boost here from my clickings around on a few chars. How much? Should it be damage based? Numbers of attacks based? Dunno that either, sorry.

Personally I think it's a combination of the pets not generating enough hate & spells generating too much hate. From what I understand spells generate a static amount of hate per type of effect (1:1 hate:dmg for nukes. 400 for any snare/stun/debuff effect type thing). The evidence of pets just snapping agro off people as soon as they engage even when multiple high-agro spells have been cast is too overwhelming.

I also feel like, given the number of people talking about turning pet taunt off to keep the mob from turning on the pet, that taunt (at least for pets) acted more as something that added to hate directly instead of the way it does with warriors . As taunt works now, it's useless if the mob is higher level than your pet (which is going to be most-cases when xp'ing until the mid/late 50s when DB range gets really huge). Remember, many of these guides are talking about fighting white/yellow/red cons.