What is BDA doing to work towards a raid agreement?

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure, Anichek has some thoughts and that's well and good, but the modifications needed to make any of Sloan's plans adequate to the casual guilds won't fly with the hardcore scene.

Curious what you think of Stealins plan? I think it's actually one of the best ones. For both it's simplicity and fairness. I don't like breaks where we can't kill mobs either. Hope this gets considered when you guys meet tomorrow.

[Mezzmur]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Curious what you think of Stealins plan? I think it's actually one of the best ones. For both it's simplicity and fairness. I don't like breaks where we can't kill mobs either. Hope this gets considered when you guys meet tomorrow.

Hitpoint, don't lie, my plan is the best. You love it.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Curious what you think of Stealins plan? I think it's actually one of the best ones. For both it's simplicity and fairness. I don't like breaks where we can't kill mobs either. Hope this gets considered when you guys meet tomorrow.

I don't like the tier1/tier2/FFA rotation, a FFA target is tantamount to giving the mob directly to TMO/FE. We've all agreed that VP is the true endgame so we've all agreed to keep VP out of almost all discussions. Walling off mobs like VS and Inny from the casual guilds isn't fair to the casual guilds, they can be easily killed with two groups, they're special because they drop nice loot, not because they are hard to kill which seems to be a common argument as well (see doraf's posts in the raid forum)

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't like the tier1/tier2/FFA rotation, a FFA target is tantamount to giving the mob directly to TMO/FE. We've all agreed that VP is the true endgame so we've all agreed to keep VP out of almost all discussions. Walling off mobs like VS and Inny from the casual guilds isn't fair to the casual guilds, they can be easily killed with two groups, they're special because they drop nice loot, not because they are hard to kill which seems to be a common argument as well (see doraf's posts in the raid forum)

I do think that VS and Inny are the two mobs that tier 1 can certainly lose to tier 2 in FFA weeks. Taken has inny on lock already. VS is a mob that requires "work," but it can be done by just about anyone. Full Circle got FTE and were awarded the kill on their first attempt. I know you guys don't want to do that kind of thing, but it's at least an option if other tier 2 guilds choose to.

[Handull]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't like the tier1/tier2/FFA rotation, a FFA target is tantamount to giving the mob directly to TMO/FE. We've all agreed that VP is the true endgame so we've all agreed to keep VP out of almost all discussions. Walling off mobs like VS and Inny from the casual guilds isn't fair to the casual guilds, they can be easily killed with two groups, they're special because they drop nice loot, not because they are hard to kill which seems to be a common argument as well (see doraf's posts in the raid forum)

unfortunately how hard a mob isn't doesn't matter to how much people will want to kill it. Gore is a fairly hard mob, but I think most people could care less to kill it, since most of Gore's loot drops off of other mobs, and Gore isn't an epic roadblock for any class. While VS might be easy, VS almost always drops great loot (trade-able, and loot for every class). Silverwing, on the other hand, will most likely drop nothing of any value. However he can drop a few very unique and desirable items. The only reason the server is happy to leave SW to 100% ffa is that he is in a limited access zone.

this can be expanded to so many other mobs. Inny is desirable because many people have a Mage and mage epic loot is rare, as is the necro focus item. While Fay is a druid epic roadblock, since the pod became 100% drop (which was my doing, high end raiders actually try to help the server, you're welcome), its fairly common, so there isn't any huge desire for anyone to kill fay over and over.

[arsenalpow]

No need to rethink the wheel. Divinity came up with a very detailed plan and we put our support behind it.

That same plan was also agreed to by every guild except TMO and FE. Even IB signed off on it initially.

Every plan that has been proposed since by FE, Sirken, and Derubael have all had the same characteristics. Tiers to restrict the choice mobs from the casual crowd, poison pill clauses that drag guilds into the FFA shitshow against their will, inequitable splits on mobs, or all of the above. Proposing plans under different names with the same inherent characteristics isn't negotiating, it's a ruse.

There are two sides to this argument. Those who support a hardcore mindset, and those who support the casual mindset. Each side not budging is the fault of each side, not a specific party or a faction within a specific party.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need to rethink the wheel. Divinity came up with a very detailed plan and we put our support behind it.

That same plan was also agreed to by every guild except TMO and FE. Even IB signed off on it initially.

Every plan that has been proposed since by FE, Sirken, and Derubael have all had the same characteristics. Tiers to restrict the choice mobs from the casual crowd, poison pill clauses that drag guilds into the FFA shitshow against their will, inequitable splits on mobs, or all of the above. Proposing plans under different names with the same inherent characteristics isn't negotiating, it's a ruse.

There are two sides to this argument. Those who support a hardcore mindset, and those who support the casual mindset. Each side not budging is the fault of each side, not a specific party or a faction within a specific party.

hey, mine has tiers and it restricts nothing.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need to rethink the wheel. Divinity came up with a very detailed plan and we put our support behind it.

That same plan was also agreed to by every guild except TMO and FE. Even IB signed off on it initially.

Every plan that has been proposed since by FE, Sirken, and Derubael have all had the same characteristics. Tiers to restrict the choice mobs from the casual crowd, poison pill clauses that drag guilds into the FFA shitshow against their will, inequitable splits on mobs, or all of the above. Proposing plans under different names with the same inherent characteristics isn't negotiating, it's a ruse.

There are two sides to this argument. Those who support a hardcore mindset, and those who support the casual mindset. Each side not budging is the fault of each side, not a specific party or a faction within a specific party.

Then why even play? Seriously, this game is purely and fundamentally FFA.

Stop using the argument that there will be trains, that you won't get mobs(you will get more mobs with ANY of these plans than in the past), and that the raid scene will be this absolute quintessential shit show that it was. Everyone has agreed and is trying to move past that, however it seems you are unable to.

I am hoping you do not represent BDA entirely. By reading everything in the raid discussion it is clear you are overly emotional to make any type of logical and sane argument or proposal.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then why even play? Seriously, this game is purely and fundamentally FFA.

Stop using the argument that there will be trains, that you won't get mobs(you will get more mobs with ANY of these plans than in the past), and that the raid scene will be this absolute quintessential shit show that it was. Everyone has agreed and is trying to move past that, however it seems you are unable to.

I am hoping you do not represent BDA entirely. By reading everything in the raid discussion it is clear you are overly emotional to make any type of logical and sane argument or proposal.

T1 - 50/50 of all raid targets outside VP, excluding Inny/CT/VS/Trak which is 1/3
T2 - 50/50 of all raid targets outside VP, excluding Inny/CT/VS/Trak which is 1/3

VP is FFA as well as 1/3 of the Inny/CT/VS/Trak spawns.


T1 is more "competitive" and stands to gain the FFA targets more (they put their money where their mouth is)
T2 is more leaning towards a rotation and don't stand to gain as much among each other.

The top tier mobs that FE/TMO/IB want Inny/CT/VS/Trak (which has been the reason every proposal has failed almost) basically have their rule set applied twice (unless they decide to change their FFA mentality)

T1 = TMO / FE / IB (if they choose)
T2 = all other guilds

T1 = their own rules
T2 = Their own rules

Any new guild can choose which to jump into, but are locked into it. This means any guild can choose between 2 different raiding styles and there are still ffa targets for the entire server (however they are heavily contested).

Repops still need to be addressed on how they'd be handled by staff/players, but everything seems to suggest FFA with a small bag limit.


Tier lock duration, as well as many other things are left open to debate and refine.

Raz, would you support this?

Also, where is my sig picture i made you?

[radditsu]

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My plan is still on the table