Sirken's proposal

[-Catherin-]

Taking off for the weekend now. hope to see a better server when I return [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Funkutron5000]

For people that missed this exchange in Sirken's Proposal Thread:

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tiers should reflect a differentiation of playstyles between guilds
Tiers should not reflect the quality of loot from each mob.

This seems to be a major sticking point between our two parties.

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See, this is where you are wrong.

The guilds who are willing to put in more time and effort in any MMO are ALWAYS going to reap the most, and the best, rewards.. Yes, on Project 1999 that unfortunately means that the TMO's and FE/IB's and TR's are going to get most of the 'top tier' mobs, because they are simply willing to invest time and effort into the raid scene that the other guilds are not.

To be clear, tracking a mob over a 48+ hr window IS effort. Mobilizing for that mob with your camped out alt army IS time and effort. I understand why you don't want to play that game, and I agree with you on that point. I would not want to do so either. However, they should not be penalized and have their merbs taken away because they are willing to do so and you are not.

TMO/FE gave the opposing side several GENEROUS offers that included a huge range of mobs. FE even hesitantly agreed to Prop C, which, despite your protests, was in fact heavily weighted towards casuals. Just because it didn't have 'enough' ct/trak/vs/inny kills did not mean it wasn't in your favor.

Want the best pixels? Put the time in to get them. If another guild is putting more time and effort into those pixels, why do you deserve them as much as they do?

This is pretty much how I feel. I won't speak for Sirken, but I think he feels the same way too. The point of this was not to get casuals an even 50/50 split on mobs outside of VP. It was to allow you guys to get a little more than you were getting previously, which was pretty much 0, and to clean up some of the shenanigans that were happening on the raid scene. I see no reason why TMO/FE should accept any proposal that they feel doesn't give them what they've earned. And yes, they have earned it. Not every engage in the past year has been filled with bullshit and shenanigans. 80% of encounters go just fine.

They made concessions to give a huge number of mobs for you guys to put on rotation, and you turned it down because 'it is not enough of the mobs we want'. I guess raiding is only fun and enjoyable if you're always getting the best targets with the best pixels, right?

I really do hope you guys can work out a deal, because I really do want ALL of the casual guilds to have targets to raid all month long. I think it supports server growth, lets everyone have fun, and lets everyone experience this great game we call Everquest. I also hope it happens soon, because I do not like having to suspend the entire server while this gets worked out. But I can tell you that if I was TMO or FE, I'd tell you guys to go back to the drawing board and try again, because I sure as hell would not be giving up targets I'd been fighting to earn the past year+.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Funkutron5000 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For people that missed this exchange in Sirken's Proposal Thread:

In case everyone forgot, the casual guilds REFUSED to pull every dirty trick in the book to get those targets. We refused to DA stall tank, "accidentally" train, leapfrog, FTE snipe, rules lawyer, manipulate logs, ninja loot, buy up hundreds of accounts, etc etc

So PLEASE explain to me again how you'd like to punish casual guilds for adhering to the rules, being good citizens, and saying we refused to "compete." It's an asinine argument. We refused to stoop as low as TMO and FE therefore we (the casuals) just don't care enough. That's bullshit, and every single person on this server knows it's bullshit.

You want to wall off targets for yourselves then do so on the merit of the casuals being unable to kill said targets, oh wait the encounters are fucking easy but your sense of entitlement after months of shitting all over each other has made you blind to the rest of the server.

Fuck you, fuck all this rhetoric. It's a goddamn game and you're a bunch of grown ass children who don't know how to share. It's pathetic. I'm done posting in troll chat. If you want to fucking talk about some proposals you can post there.

[koros]

I don't raid or even play that much, but I've been watching it unfold on the forums. The ideas articulated in this thread seem like an extremely good compromise for the casuals.

To demand a rotation or closer to a 50/50 split is massive hypocrisy. TMO/IB/FE were beating the other guilds pretty much all of the time. They're giving concessions they don't have to. Expecting an even split would be like working at McDonalds, expecting everyone to have to pay a 100% tax rate, and then having all wealth distributed equally.

Also cut variance to 12-24 hours obviously. That will help everyone and allow mobs to constantly change what time of day they spawn.

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're giving concessions they don't have to.

you make them sound generous and that casuals should be on the ground licking their boots.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So PLEASE explain to me again how you'd like to punish casual guilds for adhering to the rules, being good citizens, and saying we refused to "compete." It's an asinine argument. We refused to stoop as low as TMO and FE therefore we (the casuals) just don't care enough. That's bullshit, and every single person on this server knows it's bullshit.

You want to wall off targets for yourselves then do so on the merit of the casuals being unable to kill said targets, oh wait the encounters are fucking easy but your sense of entitlement after months of shitting all over each other has made you blind to the rest of the server.

Fuck you, fuck all this rhetoric. It's a goddamn game and you're a bunch of grown ass children who don't know how to share. It's pathetic. I'm done posting in troll chat. If you want to fucking talk about some proposals you can post there.

Your argument would have merit if you competed and then weren't involved in training etc. You didn't even show up. Likely if you did you would have been called out many times just due to inexperience or ineptitude.

How are casuals being punished? Can you really speak to a sense of entitlement?

Your attitude is not at all conducive to a healthy raid scene.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your argument would have merit if you competed and then weren't involved in training etc. You didn't even show up. Likely if you did you would have been called out many times just due to inexperience or ineptitude.

How are casuals being punished? Can you really speak to a sense of entitlement?

Your attitude is not at all conducive to a healthy raid scene.

Chest and BDA compete for ragefire all the time and I hear the complaints from other guilds in /ooc about them leapfrogging, training, KSing etc. I'm sure the staff can attest to the BDA petitionquest that goes on over ragefire. Chest just cannot stand to lose and as such he choses not to play the game at all.

[Mezzmur]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In case everyone forgot, the casual guilds REFUSED to pull every dirty trick in the book to get those targets. We refused to DA stall tank, "accidentally" train, leapfrog, FTE snipe, rules lawyer, manipulate logs, ninja loot, buy up hundreds of accounts, etc etc

So PLEASE explain to me again how you'd like to punish casual guilds for adhering to the rules, being good citizens, and saying we refused to "compete." It's an asinine argument. We refused to stoop as low as TMO and FE therefore we (the casuals) just don't care enough. That's bullshit, and every single person on this server knows it's bullshit.

You want to wall off targets for yourselves then do so on the merit of the casuals being unable to kill said targets, oh wait the encounters are fucking easy but your sense of entitlement after months of shitting all over each other has made you blind to the rest of the server.

Fuck you, fuck all this rhetoric. It's a goddamn game and you're a bunch of grown ass children who don't know how to share. It's pathetic. I'm done posting in troll chat. If you want to fucking talk about some proposals you can post there.

I'd like to hear your feedback on the Sirken Hybrid. Ignore the trolls. Seriously, I don't see how it's unfair.

I realize you feel punish, but this isn't about the past, this is about now and moving forward.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In case everyone forgot, the casual guilds REFUSED to pull every dirty trick in the book to get those targets. We refused to DA stall tank, "accidentally" train, leapfrog, FTE snipe, rules lawyer, manipulate logs, ninja loot, buy up hundreds of accounts, etc etc

Hey Chest buddy. Raiding actually isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Those incidents all happen but are few and far between. This is for you and everyone else who choose not to put in effort to kill raid mobs, but keep referencing all this "toxic" shit that happens and how you're morally above all that.

You know how shit usually goes? Batphone goes out, we log into VS pit, TMO has FTE and kill the mob, we go park at the next target and log off. I'm not going to search for it, but this morning I read a post from one of the GMs, that 80% of engages go perfectly smoothly and don't involve any of this drama.

I know this is literally the only argument that you (and many many others) have for why you want to do nothing, and still get free shots at mobs. But it's been debunked.

[Rhambuk]

80% of engages go perfectly smoothly with tmo engaging and moving on.


That's a problem...