All Players are Raid Suspended Until Further Notice

[odiecat99]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Velious 2015. Revamp Kunark.

Nahmeen

[il Siciliano]

As someone aspiring to one day see raids, and who is playing a cleric specifically to get the opportunity to do so... This post is freaking me the hell out. It sounds like there is nothing awaiting me because I wont have seniority.

[Buriedpast]

Originally Posted by il Siciliano [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As someone aspiring to one day see raids, and who is playing a cleric specifically to get the opportunity to do so... This post is freaking me the hell out. It sounds like there is nothing awaiting me because I wont have seniority.

IB, TMO, FE are always recruiting blue spell effect kids.

The onus is on the player being good enough. Neither of those three wants guild hoppers and ladder climbers. Apply to IB at 50 if you got what it takes, and we support, encourage, teach and gear appropriately. It's all up to you to perform. Those that don't , don't make the cut as standards are high amongst all three guilds, and none of them (IB TMO FE) particularly NEEDS people.

Don't think there is barriers to entry aside from you.

[Lord_Snow]

Originally Posted by Buriedpast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB, TMO, FE are always recruiting blue spell effect kids.

The onus is on the player being good enough. Neither of those three wants guild hoppers and ladder climbers. Apply to IB at 50 if you got what it takes, and we support, encourage, teach and gear appropriately. It's all up to you to perform. Those that don't , don't make the cut as standards are high amongst all three guilds, and none of them (IB TMO FE) particularly NEEDS people.

Don't think there is barriers to entry aside from you.

Why can't there be another server so other guilds can have a shot? Since this one is going to be locked down by all three from the looks of it

[Buriedpast]

Because not enough people donate, and it costs money to host this stuff.

A server with a hard PNP rule set requires very little CSR.

[JerSar]

Originally Posted by Buriedpast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because not enough people donate, and it costs money to host this stuff.

A server with a hard PNP rule set requires very little CSR.

i don't know the specifics, but I've heard Dur say that the server can handle a way higher population than current, and I assume, (assume) that you could host multiple servers on one box. Meaning it might not actually cost anything more, see my thread on another server if you want.

[SeruScars]

Originally Posted by Buriedpast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because not enough people donate, and it costs money to host this stuff.

A server with a hard PNP rule set requires very little CSR.

P99 had over 100000 hits in the last 30 days. Money is not a problem.

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by Buriedpast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because not enough people donate, and it costs money to host this stuff.

A server with a hard PNP rule set requires very little CSR.

You are partially correct. It does cost someone something to be running this environment, yet at no cost to those of us enjoying it. The rub on this is that while a significant portion of P99's player base may agree to some form of regular subscription, technically without copyright agreements the hosts can't ask for that. Instead, they ask for donations.

The risk with this type of payment model is twofold. The hosts have no guaranteed source of income to run the environment, and probably take little to nothing for their time investment. This has potential to create a boiling point of frustration for them. Conversely, the players invest time in an environment that can't be duplicated anywhere else, and become committed to it. They have already invested time (some more than others), and some may even make a financial contribution through donation... but there is no guarantee that this environment will last. It depends on the variables experienced by the host. If the money runs out, there is no funding for the costs... if patience wears too thin, they can walk away with no liability.

It's a relationship that needs double-sided respect. We as players will likely never fully comprehend what is going on behind the scenes in terms of financial obligations or time-investment responsibilities. We have to acknowledge that these things exist, and that it is our responsibility to help them to keep it going.

They've asked for suggestions and perspectives from the player base. My perspective is that there is a huge desparity between content availablity and demand and this is by design. We are all attracted to the idea of stopping content at Velious, which won't be available for some time yet. This is the selling point outlined by our hosts, and they have delivered on this promise. What nobody may have anticipated is the popularity of this project.

Outside of our little community (small by comparison against the huge gaming marketplace), I wonder how many potential sponsors of something like this are aware of what's going on here? IMHO, this project has been a success in terms of identifying what types of games people are prepared to invest in... and it's a far cry from what's on the market. Perhaps even some copyright holders themselves would be prepared to invest in seeing how this thing plays out? A little more financial freedom could go a long way in perpetuating solutions coming to the board.

In terms of CSRs, the cost can be quite minimal because the way the old system worked... the "workers" were volunteers. Unpaid people who were granted access to the tools provided they committed a minimum number of hours per week and followed a strict guideline on how to use them. Minimal supervision is required, but it has to be closely monitored.

If nothing else, I'm grateful for being a part of what got us to this point. It's been a very interesting journey from a market-perspective.

[Nune]

Well, where to start on this shit. Firstly, the irony and hypocritical nature of this move disappointing. If you want to flex your authority, show a bunch of elf-dependent nerds "who's boss" the least you could do is call it like it is.

This entire ban is just a fuck you to TMO. During the 2 weeks they were banned from raiding, other raid guilds took the initiative to reach a temporary agreement. The raiding drama was minimal (if at all), competent guilds hit 32k targets, and the up and coming guilds like mine / the casual raid guilds did what their members logged on to do; have fun. 2 weeks later, TMO gets unbanned.... AAAAND ITS GONE. This just comes off as lazy, and to me, seems like the staff got butthurt that TMO was duping / blahblah behind their back and getting away with it. The staff took the time to write their own proposals (lol) but didn't take the time to address the root cause of it all? Guilds got disbanded on live for being fucks: thats a fact jack. I saw it happen in person on Tallon Zek, to which the birth of SZ arose eventually : a place for dumb asses to go grief while the GM staff opted to use minimal intervention. I don't think a second Blue server without any kind of PnP would be the way to go, because there isn't a secondary population to fill it while keeping P99 manned well enough.

So here's my "proposal" - Remove variance.. you know, that non-classic feature on the "classic" server. IT IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL THE DRAMA. My guild doesn't hit 32k targets (yet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ), so I don't have a dog in the fight. Nor do I really give a fuck, I work 60 hours a week and so do most of us; there's an accepted reality that we won't ever be top dog thrivers in MMOs when we go outside 7 days a week. Poopsocking is gone, mass training is gone (because there aren't 3/4 guilds trying to ruin the raid for the 1 that got FTE because there's isnt shit up and they're butthurt they stared at a wall for 13 hours straight just for some other guilds monk to walk in 20 minutes ago and get the first shuriken off). THE STAFF would then figure out a rotation for which mobs spawn when, it would take a minimal amount of effort to know which mobs to spawn when, and which mobs to spawn at the same time, to be able to spread out the raiding forces.

Now, this won't happen. Because classic server GMs and devs have all their dogs in the most non-classic mechanic on the server's fight. So..

Just disband TMO. Who has 25x more Kunark raid loot than they need? TMO. Who, time and time again, was at the crime scene when training/greifing/poopsocking/hack/duping/RMT/RL info postings occurred? TMO. Who posted guild bank spreadsheets solely to mock and lord other guilds who attempted the content they did? TMO. Who's absence brought the first ever raid scene agreements/rotations/hand holding? TMO.

May seem like I've got a case of the angerz/jellyz for them, but i don't. There's quite a few people in TMO I enjoy playing with / have on friends list. But it doesn't negate the fact that at the core, there is 1 guild and a fractional chunk of the population, who are perpetuating the problems you want solved. I'm aware in the past IB could have been substituted in for TMO, yadda yadda before this argument hits the time machine, but this is now.

Since TMO got banned for 2 weeks, and this pointed forced agreement bullshit got put on us all, I've NEVER seen the staff mention donations so much. So, by my deductive reasoning, this also won't happen because it's apparent, to me, that TMO was donating their way to the shitmountain they sat upon.

Which btw, locking raids down for an entire server is a great way to get more people to donate money, good look on that one. This post may have seemed bash-the-staff happy, but honestly I have nothing but respect for what they do, and am grateful to be able to play here. I just feel like this decision was the wrong one, and there's a lack of HONEST transparency going on to let a real "agreement" be brought to.

You've created a slippery slope situation, that just gets more lubed the further we slide. Now EVERYONE thinks they've got the proposal that will get this lifted.. for fucks sake people were throwing ideas around in our guild chat last night and we don't even 32k bro. We just have fun clearing planes and doing the little guy stuff like DEs. You want the server to agree on a proposal, but my guild and our officers couldn't even post in the Raid Discussion threads, even though we raid? You cant put duct tape on someones mouth then punish them for not speaking. In your mind, you have set in stone who the "raid" guilds are : band them from raiding, and let us little guy guilds keep doing what we do / take our chances at 32k mobs the right way.

[sedrie.bellamie]

Originally Posted by Nune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

W
Just disband TMO. Who has 25x more Kunark raid loot than they need? TMO. Who, time and time again, was at the crime scene when training/greifing/poopsocking/hack/duping/RMT/RL info postings occurred? TMO.

You make it sound like TMO is the same 20 people for 3 years. TMO has been a revolving door of players because that is the envirment of p99. Without have to pay for this game monthly, people come and go. People level up to 60, join a raiding guild, get epic, get loot, and then quit. Then TMO/FE/IB have to go out and recruit new players.

At the crime scence? Like every guild can keep track of every guild member they have? The NSA can't stop information leaking and neither can a raid guild. It is true; a few bad apples can ruin the bunch. What happens at a raid is the raid guild's responsibility; punishing a raid guild for what individuals do during non-raid times is a pretty petty response from the server staff.

If the server staff really just wants to summon people's corpses and run GM events without prizes; go for it. If the server staff does not want to deal with the raid scene; just let the raiding guilds go at it. It seems with variance and FTE that the server staff has spread out their problems somewhat. The reason the server staff has to do petitionquest is b/c in 2013 no raid decision was real or cohorrent. If the server staff could decided among themselves how to treat raid guilds then alot of this would not be a problem. (ie. if the staff would actually ban FE/IB as long as they said they would)