OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Mezzmur]

The only number you can rely on is average because it's constant to both plans. If a spawn takes longer in either plan, it pushes it out of the 14 day window and it'll go FFA either way. TMO/FE/IB would participate in the rotation plan as well as on the FFA side, which is why the mobs-per-guild is always higher in the hands-off-no-rotation plans.

[Seltius]

I want to say this and it isn't targeting anyone or any idea.

The GMs have already made the first change towards improving the raid scene when they removed the No GM intervention in VP and banned future intentional training in VP. With this and the fact that intentional training is banned everywhere else how about working around that for a basis of competition.

BDA, A-Team, Europa, Taken, IB/FE(even separate if they want), TMO, and any other guild that wants a shot can attempt it all they have to do is clear around the dragon or pull the dragon to their raid. If they engage first the new PnP by its very nature should prevent any interference. You get your shot you fail and the next guild there ready gets a shot. Now you need to iron out how long you have to prep prior to engaging. This is an example for VP but every zone should work that way. If you are worried about alt armies then go and level your own alts and park them there or have your members camp there. You can find out when its in window and every guild can have trackers there.


Just a suggestion you talk about how toxic things are then make an effort to better yourself and improve them in the process. That way any guild that wants to raid can compete without underhanded interference but the alts thing isn't going away.

If you really want a chance to compete in VP maybe work it out to where you can get trak tooth from another guild or work out trades or something for epic loots/ etc. Or make alliances that raid and work out how the teeth are handled. Get enough people to try the dragons whether it is 10 or 25+ and then go in and fight for it.

Your complaining about attrition through numbers that's not TMO or IB/FE fault that they have the characters/alts to compete.

[Morbo the Annihilator]

Originally Posted by Seltius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want to say this and it isn't targeting anyone or any idea.

The GMs have already made the first change towards improving the raid scene when they removed the No GM intervention in VP and banned future intentional training in VP. With this and the fact that intentional training is banned everywhere else how about working around that for a basis of competition.

BDA, A-Team, Europa, Taken, IB/FE(even separate if they want), TMO, and any other guild that wants a shot can attempt it all they have to do is clear around the dragon or pull the dragon to their raid. If they engage first the new PnP by its very nature should prevent any interference. You get your shot you fail and the next guild there ready gets a shot. Now you need to iron out how long you have to prep prior to engaging. This is an example for VP but every zone should work that way. If you are worried about alt armies then go and level your own alts and park them there or have your members camp there. You can find out when its in window and every guild can have trackers there.


Just a suggestion you talk about how toxic things are then make an effort to better yourself and improve them in the process. That way any guild that wants to raid can compete without underhanded interference but the alts thing isn't going away.

If you really want a chance to compete in VP maybe work it out to where you can get trak tooth from another guild or work out trades or something for epic loots/ etc. Or make alliances that raid and work out how the teeth are handled. Get enough people to try the dragons whether it is 10 or 25+ and then go in and fight for it.

Your complaining about attrition through numbers that's not TMO or IB/FE fault that they have the characters/alts to compete.

Translation:
In order to move forward, all guilds should adopt the raiding strategies that sent the raid scene spiralling down the toilet in the first place.


Currently, the only avenue that a guild must take in order to see a raid boss is to track through excessive spawn windows and have an army camped nearby.
It has been determined by GMs and a majority of raiders that this should not be the only avenue for seeing a raid target.

So other avenues must be considered.

Splitting each month into a 50% rotation/50% FFA seems like a popular option for a lot of people, though it's still considered to be charity by those who are willing to spend their lives tracking it in a FFA setting.

What if the Rotation in the first 15-days of the month only offered each guild a 20-minute grace period before going into FFA, rather than 8 hours (which IMO is excessive).
That way, guilds aren't taking all of their rotation mobs for granted. They still have to track and mobilise as fast as usual, but they just have 20 minutes of no interruptions in order to get to their raid boss.
If they wipe or fail to engage within 20 minutes, their mob becomes FFA.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Morbo the Annihilator [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What if the Rotation in the first 15-days of the month only offered each guild a 20-minute grace period before going into FFA, rather than 8 hours (which IMO is excessive).
That way, guilds aren't taking all of their rotation mobs for granted. They still have to track and mobilise as fast as usual, but they just have 20 minutes of no interruptions in order to get to their raid boss.
If they wipe or fail to engage within 20 minutes, their mob becomes FFA.

Reasonably fair, but this does not solve the issue of 4 AM VS spawns. You'll just have TMO and FE sitting there with stop watches to determine when the grace period is up.

The issue is both the hardcore's instant response dominance and the variance. Both of those factors are preventing lesser guilds from meaningfully participating and experiencing endgame content. Any solution needs to place restrictions on guilds that would off-hours raid and restrictions on guilds that would take a disproportionate share of mobs.

Hands-off periods with a bag limit for each guild during that time is still, in my mind, the simplest and most fair.

[Fael]

when will people realize you cannot split 17 mobs per week among 1,000 lvl 60s and think that all 1,000 will like the agreement?

Server casuals should be thrilled they are given one week per month to raid freely. Instead they want moar. Who wouldnt?

This whole exercise in futility must be a massive troll by rogean.

Dolic

[JayN]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

when will people realize you cannot split 17 mobs per week among 1,000 lvl 60s

This whole exercise in futility must be a massive troll by rogean AIDS.

Dolic

amen

[Durka]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

when will people realize you cannot split 17 mobs per week among 1,000 lvl 60s and think that all 1,000 will like the agreement?

Server casuals should be thrilled they are given one week per month to raid freely. Instead they want moar. Who wouldnt?

This whole exercise in futility must be a massive troll by rogean.

Dolic

Are you referring to guilds like <The Knights Who Say Ni> because I am 100% positive BDA / Taken / A-Team are all hardcore (hell maybe even divinity)

Your post offends me.

[Seltius]

Originally Posted by Morbo the Annihilator [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Translation:
In order to move forward, all guilds should adopt the raiding strategies that sent the raid scene spiralling down the toilet in the first place.


Currently, the only avenue that a guild must take in order to see a raid boss is to track through excessive spawn windows and have an army camped nearby.
It has been determined by GMs and a majority of raiders that this should not be the only avenue for seeing a raid target.

So other avenues must be considered.

Splitting each month into a 50% rotation/50% FFA seems like a popular option for a lot of people, though it's still considered to be charity by those who are willing to spend their lives tracking it in a FFA setting.

What if the Rotation in the first 15-days of the month only offered each guild a 20-minute grace period before going into FFA, rather than 8 hours (which IMO is excessive).
That way, guilds aren't taking all of their rotation mobs for granted. They still have to track and mobilise as fast as usual, but they just have 20 minutes of no interruptions in order to get to their raid boss.
If they wipe or fail to engage within 20 minutes, their mob becomes FFA.

Then im lost on what is considered toxic on this server. Since I started playing I have heard how toxic the raid scene is but when someone is asked they can never explain what they mean. Is toxic having alts or is it the training in VP that was allowed or is it the training and ksing etc. that was "accidentally" happening between the "hardcore" raiding guilds on things like Trak and VS? Or maybe how they actually had to put FTE in because otherwise guilds will try to steal targets from each other. Perfect example was Nobles how many guilds would sit there and wait for the spawn to see if they could be the one lucky enough to hit it first and get FTE? Please explain as I was attempting to at least understand to an extent what the issue is instead of attacking others over their ideas.

I'm glad your offering ideas but so was I. Oh and I'm actually pretty clueless about how bad the server has been for 2 years. For the most part I have tried to play nice and stay out of the guild politics. I chat and joke with everyone no matter tag ask Taselhof(sp? sorry man I cant remember your an Jeremy's alts spellings of name) I would talk with him in KC or Seb or even VP while there.

I feel that the brainstorming here is an alternative to the hate that has been going on here so heavily even if our ideas aren't discussed by or respective representatives. So I wont bash your ideas and feel free not to bash mine if you would like to try to improve on them then go ahead I wont be offended. But the point of my post stands. The GMs gave us the start of a way to raid less toxic start with that and build from there.

[Eloian]

Like I said, you guys put in the extra effort, Xp'd there for who knows how long and showed up in larger numbers when window was short. Good job and grats!

Eloian Bushlover (Bare bushes are still bushes)
57 Ranger <BDA>

[Durka]

Originally Posted by Eloian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like I said, you guys put in the extra effort, Xp'd there for who knows how long and showed up in larger numbers when window was short. Good job and grats!

Eloian Bushlover (Bare bushes are still bushes)
57 Ranger <BDA>

=D

Danke!