Rotations =/= handouts

[Castigate]

Originally Posted by lecompte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So this is my first post on any thread related to the recent server activity, so bear with me: There seems to be a lot of people saying things like changes to the raid seen are a nicety and/or optional and that TMO/FE/WhoTheFuckEver is WILLING to talk about changes... The impression I get from Rogean posts are there is no willing, there is no option; the sword of Damocles hangs overhead -- save your pixels. Move the conversation along.

This is exactly what people seem to be trying to forget in all of this. I see plenty of people saying that the current/former rules are the rules we should end up sticking with. I also see a lot of bargaining over what essentially is the minimum we can do to make him happy so that Velious has all the toys we want to play with.

For the very slow who don't truly understand what's at stake in these conversations, get this through your heads already please.

ROGEAN DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK IF IT WOULD KILL THE SERVER, he will release Velious minus raid mobs if we don't actually try to improve things. I mean really try, not this petty fighting over what is/was/could be a monopoly, duopoly, or on the other end socialized pixels. Stop thinking things could go back to the way they were, because if they do I would guess Rogean would be more likely to shut the whole project down than let you continue doing what has been done.

Honestly when TMO comes off suspension I would like to see 2 weeks of no raid content at all on this server, hell start it now. People need to step back and get a little bit of perspective on this shit rather than continuing to pretend it will go away if they ignore it.

Personally I'm a fan of using decay models for how long guilds must wait on different mobs, they dont even have to be the same for every mob and they essentially solve most arguments that come up. For the world dragons and generally agreed less contested mobs it could be 2h 1h 30m 15m 7m30s 3m45s 1m53s free. Sure most of those times beyond 15mins would never get used, but if an up and coming guild wanted a crack at a dragon, and was willing to put in the work, they'd often get a relatively low pressure engage. Now with mobs like VS and Trak this time could be much shorter, you could start the timer at 20 minutes instead of 2 hours and most of it would never get used, but if people did want shots, they could get them without drama if they were prepared. Yes this doesn't address poopsocking, but honestly 1 tracker with 49 camped right next to the mob is not that much different than 50 trackers in my mind, I suppose its 1-5 minutes different depending on your guilds mobilization. At very least for Gods and world dragons you can't address one without the other.

This is just one idea, and I don't believe on its own it would be enough. It could be relatively easily tracked on the raid board by adding a few columns though.

What really needs to be protected here is the ability for anyone to fight a raid mob. During any given cycle at least 1 of Tal/Gore? Naggy, Vox, Maestro(yes players would care), and maybe draco should be left for actual pick up raids. I'm not saying big guilds shouldn't be allowed to attend these either, but they should make it their priority to help out newer players and just have fun. I feel something like this would make the community better in the long run.

Call me a carebear or idiot or whatever, but everyone here needs to realize that regardless of the decision made, it won't automatically save your Velious toys, you need to actually start caring about each other and trying to patch up your old hatred to do that.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Castigate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is exactly what people seem to be trying to forget in all of this. I see plenty of people saying that the current/former rules are the rules we should end up sticking with. I also see a lot of bargaining over what essentially is the minimum we can do to make him happy so that Velious has all the toys we want to play with.

For the very slow who don't truly understand what's at stake in these conversations, get this through your heads already please.

ROGEAN DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK IF IT WOULD KILL THE SERVER, he will release Velious minus raid mobs if we don't actually try to improve things. I mean really try, not this petty fighting over what is/was/could be a monopoly, duopoly, or on the other end socialized pixels. Stop thinking things could go back to the way they were, because if they do I would guess Rogean would be more likely to shut the whole project down than let you continue doing what has been done.

Honestly when TMO comes off suspension I would like to see 2 weeks of no raid content at all on this server, hell start it now. People need to step back and get a little bit of perspective on this shit rather than continuing to pretend it will go away if they ignore it.

Personally I'm a fan of using decay models for how long guilds must wait on different mobs, they dont even have to be the same for every mob and they essentially solve most arguments that come up. For the world dragons and generally agreed less contested mobs it could be 2h 1h 30m 15m 7m30s 3m45s 1m53s free. Sure most of those times beyond 15mins would never get used, but if an up and coming guild wanted a crack at a dragon, and was willing to put in the work, they'd often get a relatively low pressure engage. Now with mobs like VS and Trak this time could be much shorter, you could start the timer at 20 minutes instead of 2 hours and most of it would never get used, but if people did want shots, they could get them without drama if they were prepared. Yes this doesn't address poopsocking, but honestly 1 tracker with 49 camped right next to the mob is not that much different than 50 trackers in my mind, I suppose its 1-5 minutes different depending on your guilds mobilization. At very least for Gods and world dragons you can't address one without the other.

This is just one idea, and I don't believe on its own it would be enough. It could be relatively easily tracked on the raid board by adding a few columns though.

What really needs to be protected here is the ability for anyone to fight a raid mob. During any given cycle at least 1 of Tal/Gore? Naggy, Vox, Maestro(yes players would care), and maybe draco should be left for actual pick up raids. I'm not saying big guilds shouldn't be allowed to attend these either, but they should make it their priority to help out newer players and just have fun. I feel something like this would make the community better in the long run.

Call me a carebear or idiot or whatever, but everyone here needs to realize that regardless of the decision made, it won't automatically save your Velious toys, you need to actually start caring about each other and trying to patch up your old hatred to do that.

I like the cut of your jib.

Part of what I consider necessary, is LOW CS TIME. Ain't no one got time to be babtsitting a 15 year old elf simulator.

So we need EZ rules.

20-40 minute window for clean first kill attempt, if you can muster and execute. If other guild who got last kill is ready, they have to wait.

In other words, every spawn has a 20 minute no-touch period, if >1 guild in zone (set number for how many counts for a guild to be counted in zone, I'm a theoretician not a raid leader dammit). Whoever got last kill has tio give any and all competition to get a clean shot. After 20-40 minutes business as usual.

If a guild wants a kill, they can get a kill. They just have to be able to show up, and then execute.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Originally Posted by drktmplr12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one cares.
People like you make the community toxic.

People like you make people like me turn toxic.
I have helped plenty of people in game.
Never put grief on anyone.
But when they are gonna call a generalized group of people (that includes me) out in the OP for playing a game I am going to respond to them as I wish.
So it is ok for them to do kinda the opposite of belittle and "Zerg" me but if I belittle them back its all bad?

Originally Posted by drktmplr12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have contributed nothing to this thread except your asinine perception of what you think this server is about.

LOL really?
What have you contributed? I do not contribute to forum questing sorry.
The original thread post is exactly what you describe here. An asinine perception of how the OP sees the server. I just see it different.
So what?
No one cares

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This guy is obviously a coat tail rider supreme.

Lol this guy is a proven forum warrior.
Whose coat tail am I on?...

[Castigate]

My timing in posting that was very awkward...
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[heartbrand]

Originally Posted by big mouth chew [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sounds really intense guys

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know that TMO has killed Trakanon over 200 times. That is 400 to 1000 trak teeth for VP keys? How many fucking more trak teeth do you need to bank? How many more guts do you think you need to sell to bards at 750kpp for their epic to keep the RMT / alt buying business going?

Sharing is caring. The monopoly needs to stop.

At least 7 more of each.

[heazels]

best solution imo, ban tmo from killing trak, naggie, vox.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sharing is caring. The monopoly needs to stop.

How many times has BDA actually camped out and even attempted to engage Trak, VS, CT, or otherwise? You have people willing to track. You have people on a batphone. And, you have people willing to answer said batphone...

BDA said it was impossible to compete with TMO when a handful of members broke off and formed FE. Those members camped out at trak for months, waking up at strange hours to watch TMO get the engage and kill trak, yet we still kept trying. 5 months later we had our first VP kill. Stop saying it's not possible/it's a monopoly when you don't even make an attempt.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How many times has BDA actually camped out and even attempted to engage Trak, VS, CT, or otherwise? You have people willing to track. You have people on a batphone. And, you have people willing to answer said batphone...

BDA said it was impossible to compete with TMO when a handful of members broke off and formed FE. Those members camped out at trak for months, waking up at strange hours to watch TMO get the engage and kill trak, yet we still kept trying. 5 months later we had our first VP kill. Stop saying it's not possible/it's a monopoly when you don't even make an attempt.

Because poopsocking for days is ridiculous for essentially what boils down to Fastest Javelin in the West. The splinter group from BDA that formed FE didn't think it was ridiculous, and instead perpetuated this concept that keeps getting mistaken for competition, and which continues to drive the raid scene being a shitshow. Because after devoting that much time and waking up at 3am for kills when you have work at 0700... the stakes have escalated so extremely high that guilds doing this resort to trains, rules lawyering, stall tanking, whatever it takes to make sure that extreme amount of effort which you have created for yourselves gets rewarded with pixels.

Rogean and the rest of the server feel that these extremes are what makes the server miserable and need to be changed... yet you're here chastising a guild for taking a stand for the sanity of its members and not adding another 60-80 players to the identified problem?

So, yeah... that's why we don't make an attempt to intensify the already existing issues with the raid scene. The stakes would have been even higher and we would have gotten to this "enough is enough" point far sooner.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because poopsocking for days is ridiculous for essentially what boils down to Fastest Javelin in the West.

So many people think this way, and it's the biggest hypocrisy in EQ. If you play EQ you track shit all day long, indirectly. You sit in your group and wait for named to respawn, you kill AC placeholders, you press track looking for Quillmane, you wait multiple hours for Hadden to spawn. It doesn't matter if your on a monk in trakanon's lair, or an enchanter camping frenzy, it's all the same thing. I tracked Trakanon for an hour yesterday while watching Netflix. Would my time have been better spent quading on my crappy druid 4th alt? BDA can track raid targets 24/7 if they want to. They choose to track everything else instead.