Weighted Point Value System - Serverwide Raid Idea Thread

[Yinikren]

True, but the mobs simply aren't up long enough for a bid to take place, though it is an interesting idea I admit. Something like VS, for instance, lasts like 37 seconds after a pop. It would be much easier to track the kill if guilds went after him normally and whoever got the kill had the points deducted. Plus, with my weighted system, its possible there will be less competition for VS then normal, because other epic mobs are the same cost as him and other guilds may have already hit their point limit earlier in the week, or are waiting for a Trak pop, or any other reason.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True, but the mobs simply aren't up long enough for a bid to take place, though it is an interesting idea I admit. Something like VS, for instance, lasts like 37 seconds after a pop. It would be much easier to track the kill if guilds went after him normally and whoever got the kill had the points deducted. Plus, with my weighted system, its possible there will be less competition for VS then normal, because other epic mobs are the same cost as him and other guilds may have already hit their point limit earlier in the week.

So you take your idea of giving 200 points to start, with each guild having a weekly point allowance. If a mob they want is in window, they bid what its worth to them. When it spawns they have 1 hour to execute their engage, otherwise the 2nd highest bidder goes.

I think predetermined point values for each mob just isn't appealing to someone who enjoys raiding competition. There has to be some kind of competition for each mob, each week. The bidding system combined with stipulations for engage time, wipes, etc seems like a very attractive system.

If people can stick to the rules and the bidding is out in the open I don't see how this idea can fail. If a guild wants a mob they bid what its worth to them, if they win they get 1 hour to engagr after the mob spawns. Furthermore a wipe, failure to track, or any foul play can be dealt with accordingly through point distribution/penalties.

This means each guild will be responsible for their own tracking, having a proper kill force present, and be forced to forgo certain mobs due to not having enough points to bid on everything they want every week. Would be fairly easy to track using a spreadsheet.

Think of it as a raid dkp bidding system, for guilds.

[Yinikren]

I slept on your idea all night, tassle, and I have to admit that the longer I thought about it the better it sounded. Guilds bidding while a mob is in window would eliminate us as a server needing to price out mobs, because mobs become worth whatever a guild is willing to pay to kill it.

The only issue I see is that a bidding war is not competition in the eyes of the majority of the server. They want to race to engage a mob that spawns, and my system allows for that.

Is there a way to combine bidding and the mob race? People won't like that the winner of the bid gets handed a mob attempt without having to track for it... Which many will be for and many against.

[Troubled]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I slept on your idea all night, tassle, and I have to admit that the longer I thought about it the better it sounded. Guilds bidding while a mob is in window would eliminate us as a server needing to price out mobs, because mobs become worth whatever a guild is willing to pay to kill it.

The only issue I see is that a bidding war is not competition in the eyes of the majority of the server. They want to race to engage a mob that spawns, and my system allows for that.

Is there a way to combine bidding and the mob race? People won't like that the winner of the bid gets handed a mob attempt without having to track for it... Which many will be for and many against.

There needs to be a minimum bid if that's the case, or guilds will start bid at 1 pt.

[Yinikren]

For sure, I could see it being 10 point increments. I still see the issue of bidder=winner=not 'racing' for mobs, though.

[JerSar]

10 points to gryffindor!

[baramur]

Lol funny that people still believe casual players should recieve same raiding powers/mobs/loots as hardcore, cause that is so classic. Stop shooting for the moon. Hey lets just make all raid items drop off random zone mobs, i mean why should we have to do any real work. Or better yet every guild gets 20 tokens a week to spawn raid mobs different mobs cost different amount of tokens. I mean thats what we comparing this to right. More sick of noone wanting to compete for raid mo s then i was fighting tmo over them.

[Yinikren]

Originally Posted by baramur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

some crap without forming any counter arguments or other ideas

Thank you for your valued input.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The bidding system, if I am understanding it correctly, eliminates competing for FTE for mobs. It turns competition into an allocation of resources (points) instead of the thrill of mobilization/logging in fully buffed toons and racing for FTE that many players do not want to give up. They will shoot this idea down because there is no fun in it for them. Yes, it does limit the amount of "raid target intake" any particular guild can get, but you've removed competition for mobilization/FTE.

The weighted value bag limit system keeps the competition in play while still preventing a monopoly, which I thought was the ultimate goal of everyone here except those who don't want to compete for mobs. At the beginning of the time period, you have full competition for FTE... the same as we have now. The difference is as you beat guilds to targets, killing those targets starts costing you the opportunity to engage other targets within that time period. That opportunity cost is an opportunity for other guilds to race for FTE that may not have necessarily had that chance before.

Yes, a guild can hypothetically monopolize the 2-3 targets of their choice every week if they want to compete with other guilds for FTE. But think of all the targets that opens up for everyone else when that guild is not actively pursuing them. So the #2 and #3 guilds battle it out. Maybe the #2 guild doesn't prioritize Vox or Naggy, and neither goes guild #3. So that leaves the competition for those mobs open for other guilds. Opportunity which may not exist now.

And what's more is, guilds like Taken who have demonstrated the willpower, resolve, and resources to poopsock Innoruuk for days in order to get earth staffs or ranger emeralds or eyes or whatever can STILL DO SO (more power to them).

This system still does not reward the guilds who do not want to put effort into tracking and mobilizing for a raid target. Nor should it -- that's what people are talking about when saying they want to "avoid a handout system." A target isn't going to be left up for people to kill at their leisure (i.e. a rotation system) because there are far too many players on the server that enjoy competition to let that happen, so lets be realistic about it. But what we can offer is a system that provides competition to those who want it, while still determining a fair way of saying "Okay bro, you got your share for the week/month... time to let others partake."

In my opinion, a week is too short of periodicity... I would prefer a month. The points should be set up so that the top 1-4 guilds will definitely run out of points by the 4th week if they go balls to the wall the first three weeks. If they space out their kills and let some of the lower tier guild get low priority targets, then they might have some points to spend in that 4th week before the points totals get replenished at the first of the month. Otherwise, the lower tier guild get their field day that last week of the month. It should force guilds to race for targets based on "need for the guild" vs. "would like to have" or "just don't want others to have". For those arguing about "a raid guild should not be limited to X targets a week" -- that is the problem with defining the periodicity as a week. Go with a month. And keep in mind there has to be a concept of "okay, we got our fair share... we don't need everything, we can take a break from tracking/poopsocking/whatever... there's always next month."

As far as progression, the opportunity for a lower tier guild to get a Trakanon kill under this system is a bit low, yes. But right now it's zero, along with any of the Kunark dragons, planar gods, etc (except on a full repop day). It is a given that the VP guilds will need to decide whether to continue to go for VP dragons or try to still kill Trak/VS. Do the pre-VP guilds fight for Trak/VS/CT or do they settle for Sev/Gore/Talendor/Inny? And when Velious pops (points totals are raised for all guilds at that point to compensate for additional targets available)... those guilds who have been in VP are going to be expending their points on Velious targets. The now VP-capable guilds have to decide whether to spend their points on VP or Velious. Suddenly the guilds that were stuck at just Kunark dragons can either go do Trak/VS with the goal of getting into VP, or go try competing in Velious. Some old world stuff may get left up for hours. The guilds naturally progress to other targets based on guild needs because their points allocations forces them to make those decisions, and punishes them for blowing their points on older content because they won't have the points at the end of the time period for kills on dragons that drop ST keys or whatever.

No, there's not going to be instant gratification on a Tier 3 or 4 guild getting Trak kills until Velious. But if you don't create these limits and allow the competitive guilds the opportunity to cockblock, you won't have an opportunity for a Tier 3 or 4 guild to get Trak kills in Velious because the Tier 2 guilds will still be playing catch up themselves.

[baramur]

I have posted my ideas 10 times in 10 other threads. You want no monopoly then simplify it.

1st week of the month top 2 guilds will not engage in any raiding outside vp. I believe the remaining guilds can compete with each other fine.

I would even go as far as saying Guilds can only kill Fay, Sev, Gore, Tal 1 time per month.

Try this for a few months then adjust if its not working. The other 3 weeks could be normal raiding with a 2 hour engage if you were last guild to kill or whatever.