Proposition For Raid Rules - Input Requested

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You stil need real numbers if you want people to use points effectively. If they get 100 points and all the mobs are a total of 90 points that isnt forcing any guild to do anything differently.

According to TMO front page news Trak has spawned 254 times over 28 months. (As of nov 5th) That is 9ish traks a month. Which Means 9/4 traks a week. The math will be easier with monthly points. If done right could add up to big gains by other guilds at the end of the month. Then in this case TMO get their govt check at the start of the month and spend spend spend.

Combine this with an agreement to not poopsock and camp over x amount of toons at spawn points. I think would be effective.

You need to make the points work in regards to having 2 guilds not possibly dominate all spawns. I need spawn numbers before I could make a determination.

You could even have server repops as freebies, not counting towards the "bag limit", since it would throw off whatever points balance would be calculated.

Another point to consider is the "extended overtime" variance would skew the ability to calculate a feasible points limit... would the staff consider at least removing that extended variance?

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've read half this thread so far, but all I can see so far is that no one here can agree on a way to split mobs that doesn't give TMO 80% or more of the attempts... Isn't that a monopoly and the whole thing we are trying to prevent? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] This is why I suggested a XASTEN STYLE BAG LIMIT in the other thread. Limit the mob intake.

I think most of those suggestions were to just bring TMO to the negotiating table to begin with, something they never even considered before. But now that Rogean has given the rest of the server the majority rule, I think the monopoly is effectively dead.

[Valoril]

It continues to be an aggravating realization among CSR staff that 10% of the server population causes 90% of the problems. We are all for competition, but it needs to be fair competition. We are also all here for the same thing, to experience classic Everquest. The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

I don't post much here but this issue is obviously an issue for everybody so I read this whole thread.
My impression is that it is 5 or 6 persons, always the same, who didn't really understand the above quote and seem to be somehow convinced that they are deciding about what will be and what will not be the rules on P99.

Somebody even wrote something in the sense "Rotation will never happen because I don't like it".
On the other hand there are some 10 guilds able to raid and I don't see them giving their opinions and votes here.

My suggestion : create a board section for Guild leaderships ONLY.
For each guild 2 representatives.
The names of the guilds are chosen by CSR for their ability to raid.
That makes about 20 people.
They discuss whatever they need to discuss and vote if some points need voting.
2/3 majority wins the vote.

As we were clearly told : Mods WILL enforce the decisions
This means that if the already mentioned 10% who cause 95% of the problems don't like the decisions of the majority they have only 2 options - either leave or obey.
Should there be despite everything still somebody who willfully breaks the rules decided by the majority, he gets banned.

With that the 10% that would potentially cause problems shrink to 0% within 1 month.

[radditsu]

I am SURE adventure time frezia would love to extrapolate his idea to the highest degree. As much as he loves to verbose post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Yinikren]

I am glad tmo is at least on the table with this decision so that of course is a huge plus.

Doesn't stop the fact that TMO/IBFE getting 80+% of the encounters is still a monopoly though. I liked Deru's 2 hour 2 guild rule, but that still leaves everyone to compete with whatever week TMO and IBFE don't have people camped at each target. FTE wars are garbage and everyone knows this.

The bag limit where guilds need to actively pick and pursue targets they need in a week, while leaving others up because they have to, seems like a good choice on paper for limiting mobs per guild, which is the entire reason we are having this discussion.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am glad tmo is at least on the table with this decision so that of course is a huge plus.

Doesn't stop the fact that TMO/IBFE getting 80+% of the encounters is still a monopoly though. I liked Deru's 2 hour 2 guild rule, but that still leaves everyone to compete with whatever week TMO and IBFE don't have people camped at each target. FTE wars are garbage and everyone knows this.

The bag limit where guilds need to actively pick and pursue targets they need in a week, while leaving others up because they have to, seems like a good choice on paper for limiting mobs per guild, which is the entire reason we are having this discussion.

3 guilds getting 80% of the kills is not a monopoly by the very definition of monopoly.
2 guilds getting 80% of the kills is not a monopoly. 1 guild getting 80% of the kills is pretty close to a monopoly.

[Clark]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Yinikren]

Points cost system would work fine with variance gone and bonus weekly repops not counting towards the cost for guilds each week - they are free mobs.

To the guy who said it wouldn't change anything because the mobs would only equal 90 points or whatever (on my phone at work, sorry for not looking) - it won't. Mobs should equal 4-500 points or so altogether. That gives 4-5 guilds 100 points worth of raiding a week, and that means there's even more mobs to go around for the guilds that don't reach their cap. Trak and Epic mobs could be 50 points each - meaning by default no guild gets more than 2 a week. Points costs could be scaled down when velious drops because of the influx of raid mobs. ST key mobs could be 40, for instance, limiting guilds to 2 key mobs a week and at the expense of other loot mobs. Epic mobs and loot mobs could drop to 10-25 points each because there will be a ton more encounters and epics won't be so bottlenecky. The system can constantly be adjusted to limit the number of times a week a guild can eat from the mob pie.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Points cost system would work fine with variance gone and bonus weekly repops not counting towards the cost for guilds each week - they are free mobs.

To the guy who said it wouldn't change anything because the mobs would only equal 90 points or whatever (on my phone at work, sorry for not looking) - it won't. Mobs should equal 4-500 points or so altogether. That gives 4-5 guilds 100 points worth of raiding a week, and that means there's even more mobs to go around for the guilds that don't reach their cap. Trak and Epic mobs could be 50 points each - meaning by default no guild gets more than 2 a week. Points costs could be scaled down when velious drops because of the influx of raid mobs. ST key mobs could be 40, for instance, limiting guilds to 2 key mobs a week and at the expense of other loot mobs. Epic mobs and loot mobs could drop to 10-25 points each because there will be a ton more encounters and epics won't be so bottlenecky. The system can constantly be adjusted to limit the number of times a week a guild can eat from the mob pie.

You cant hope for variance changes or repops. Unless rogean says they will do so. It makes sense to use real numbers in a senario as it stands today.

[Troubled]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Points cost system would work fine with variance gone and bonus weekly repops not counting towards the cost for guilds each week - they are free mobs.

To the guy who said it wouldn't change anything because the mobs would only equal 90 points or whatever (on my phone at work, sorry for not looking) - it won't. Mobs should equal 4-500 points or so altogether. That gives 4-5 guilds 100 points worth of raiding a week, and that means there's even more mobs to go around for the guilds that don't reach their cap. Trak and Epic mobs could be 50 points each - meaning by default no guild gets more than 2 a week. Points costs could be scaled down when velious drops because of the influx of raid mobs. ST key mobs could be 40, for instance, limiting guilds to 2 key mobs a week and at the expense of other loot mobs. Epic mobs and loot mobs could drop to 10-25 points each because there will be a ton more encounters and epics won't be so bottlenecky. The system can constantly be adjusted to limit the number of times a week a guild can eat from the mob pie.

There's no reason repops shouldn't count toward a point limit. They reset the spawn timer of raid mobs. Point system doesn't have to be exclusive either, it could still have a time limit rule applied. If said mob killed after timer, no points taken.