Proposition For Raid Rules - Input Requested

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The solution needs to be simple to understand, easily managed by guilds, open enough that no guild is pigeon-holed into which target/s they can/can't compete for weekly, and it needs to keep the spirit of competition.

The only way I can see it happen is to have overlapping competition tiers by instituting a point system. Otherwise people are just going to have systems set up that end up being a rotation.

With a limited amount of points and variance the way it is, raid guilds have to decide if they want to risk killing an early spawn for loot (and lose the points) or hold out for a more desirable high value raid target and risk having points wasted for the week (another guild kills the target instead of yours).

Doesn't mean it's the only way, but most everything I have seen limits certain targets to guilds or is a rotation of raid guilds and non raid guilds.

^^ er, yeah... this

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^ er, yeah... this

Rogean has already stated that majority rules and that is what will happen.

Every guild should be discussing what method it wants and then come together and voice their opinion.

IF TMO as a guild doesn't agree to it, it won't fail, instead TMO will stay raid suspended.

Basically, every guild should be figuring out what it thinks is reasonable, then come together with like minded guilds and hash out things and keep doing this until they can all come to an agreement or a vast majority can.

[Ravager]

Here's a troll suggestion: drop the level cap back to 50. Then everyone will be forced to work together.

[quido]

Originally Posted by Ungriim [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. The 2 hour window stall remains in effect.
Outside of VP - whoever kills a Kunark or Classic Dragon will be required to wait 2 hours before making an attempt the next time the dragon pops.

This two-hour thing is simply not going to work once TMO is back in the raid scene. This is what I was referring to in saying that I don't want anything to essentially be a rotation. I personally like the "combined TMO/FE/IB are only allowed to kill so many of a particular target consecutively" rule that someone suggested recently.

Originally Posted by Ungriim [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Forced raid breaks for high-kill guilds

Explaination: If you look at whokilledit.com, there are 2 dragons on 3 day (~8 kills a month) and 9 dragons on 7 day (~36 kills a month) for a total of roughly 44 dragon kills per month. Lets take that at a 25% rate. 11 dragons a month. ANY guild that kills more than 11 dragons a month is forced to take a raid break from Classic/Kunark dragons for the first week of the following month.

This is a little screwy too. I don't want to be penalized for significantly outperforming another competitive guild. Having a dominant month result in a forced week off while those who were dominated basically get free attempts is kind of bunk.

I think you'll have more luck with "1 out of X of every [target] is off-limits to anyone that has killed it before, for Y hours."

The "anyone that has killed it before" clause is what accounts for Tier 3 guilds. If it wasn't clear, I am against defaulting too much to BDA and Taken who already get a respectable number of kills. This rule could be further tweaked to account for guilds that killed something once and later are looking to get another unobstructed attempt, or third, fourth, fifth - whatever the provisions allow.

About a year ago I advocated having 1 out of 4 or 5 mobs be available for attempts by guilds that haven't killed it before. The idea was squashed by FE as they still needed gear for their members.

I really would like to see more people have the opportunity to step into the raiding world on p99. That barrier to entry lies at the Tier 3 guild level - a level where people likely need every possible player they can muster, plenty of time to prepare and get everything right, and possibly a second or third attempt.

[quido]

Furthermore I am in favor of reducing variance by at least half with any changes.

[Troubled]

Repost.

For this proposed pseudo-rotation:

Besides CT(& Draco CT), Trak, VS, & VP, blanket agreement for no guild to take more than 1 out of 4 spawns? For most mobs, FE/IB & TMO would easily reach their 50%, but that opens it up for another guild to take the other 50%, such as Taken/Taken on 2 inny spawns or BDA/BDA on 2 Vox spawns. Let's just make it 1 out of 4 for any guild?

Speaking for myself, and not my zerg, I would like to see VS added to the lesser mob list, but other than that I think we have something to work with here. Nice thought, Alarti.


If variance were removed (besides a needed +-4 hrs to appease all hours players) for mobs outside VP, that would go a long way to promoting competition between all "tier" guilds, knowing their timesink wouldn't be near as severe for camping out/tracking, while promoting racing/competition for tier1 non-VP targets.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Troubled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Repost.

For this proposed pseudo-rotation:

Besides CT(& Draco CT), Trak, VS, & VP, blanket agreement for no guild to take more than 1 out of 4 spawns? For most mobs, FE/IB & TMO would easily reach their 50%, but that opens it up for another guild to take the other 50%, such as Taken/Taken on 2 inny spawns or BDA/BDA on 2 Vox spawns. Let's just make it 1 out of 4 for any guild?

Speaking for myself, and not my zerg, I would like to see VS added to the lesser mob list, but other than that I think we have something to work with here. Nice thought, Alarti.


If variance were removed (besides a needed +-4 hrs to appease all hours players) for mobs outside VP, that would go a long way to promoting competition between all "tier" guilds, knowing their timesink wouldn't be near as severe for camping out/tracking, while promoting racing/competition for tier1 non-VP targets.

Only problem I have with VS is the exceedingly rare drops and its a 7day +/- that the tops actually need. VS went to a 3 day spawn in Velious for a reason.

[Ungriim]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This two-hour thing is simply not going to work once TMO is back in the raid scene. This is what I was referring to in saying that I don't want anything to essentially be a rotation. I personally like the "combined TMO/FE/IB are only allowed to kill so many of a particular target consecutively" rule that someone suggested recently.



This is a little screwy too. I don't want to be penalized for significantly outperforming another competitive guild. Having a dominant month result in a forced week off while those who were dominated basically get free attempts is kind of bunk.

I think you'll have more luck with "1 out of X of every [target] is off-limits to anyone that has killed it before, for Y hours."

The "anyone that has killed it before" clause is what accounts for Tier 3 guilds. If it wasn't clear, I am against defaulting too much to BDA and Taken who already get a respectable number of kills. This rule could be further tweaked to account for guilds that killed something once and later are looking to get another unobstructed attempt, or third, fourth, fifth - whatever the provisions allow.

About a year ago I advocated having 1 out of 4 or 5 mobs be available for attempts by guilds that haven't killed it before. The idea was squashed by FE as they still needed gear for their members.

I really would like to see more people have the opportunity to step into the raiding world on p99. That barrier to entry lies at the Tier 3 guild level - a level where people likely need every possible player they can muster, plenty of time to prepare and get everything right, and possibly a second or third attempt.

I'm confused how this is different? It's still roughly 1 out of every 4 spawns which IBFE/TMO leaves alone. I think that anytime we are "picking" what gets left alone does pretty much nothing for the server. Also the first portion only implies a pseudo-rotation based on 2 guilds. FE/IB could split, BDA could step up, etc and it would be back to FTE fighting quite a bit.

Basically with my plan were not punished, we get some time to relax...it allows other people to engage with either no time limit or equal playing field wngages, and it turns PD into trak 2.0 and turns xygoz/SW into VS/CT

[quido]

Originally Posted by Ungriim [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm confused how this is different? It's still roughly 1 out of every 4 spawns which IBFE/TMO leaves alone. I think that anytime we are "picking" what gets left alone does pretty much nothing for the server. Also the first portion only implies a pseudo-rotation based on 2 guilds. FE/IB could split, BDA could step up, etc and it would be back to FTE fighting quite a bit.

Basically with my plan were not punished, we get some time to relax...it allows other people to engage with either no time limit or equal playing field wngages, and it turns PD into trak 2.0 and turns xygoz/SW into VS/CT

What happens some month when TMO reaches the quota and FE or IB don't?

I'm advocating leaving 1 out of X alone no matter what if you've killed it - it is not dependent on a good or bad month, and it holds for all mobs. We can work out details for people who haven't repeatedly killed these mobs to get further attempts.

[quido]

Hate to burst your bubble BDA folks, but combined TMO/FE/IB are still going to get the vast majority of stuff. BDA asking for a guaranteed 1/4th split while saying TMO and FE/IB each get a 1/4th split is preposterous.

We are talking about increasing significantly the number of targets available to people who previously didn't get as much or got nothing at all. We are not talking about equal footing between everyone.