If you think US Healthcare is anything other than an embarrassment, you're delusional

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by DrKvothe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Single payer would come out of tax revenue, and the amount you pay for your healthcare would effectively rise with your income. Despite the fact that behaviors that increase ones burden on the healthcare system are less common in high earners. I used to support single-payer, but after looking into it, I've become a big aca fan.

The ACA prevents insurers from dropping you when you're sick and allows sick people to get health insurance. That's a huge relief for a lot of people, especially in the post-bush economy when jobs (and the insurance they provide) are easily lost. But how do you keep people from just paying out of pocket until they get sick, then signing up? Individual mandate solves that nicely. You can choose not to contribute to the insurance pool, but it'll cost you an additional tax.

The Medicaid expansion provides low income women with the means to properly plan their reproduction. Previously it only kicked in once the woman became pregnant. This seeks to address the 5fold higher rate of unplanned pregnancies amongst low income women. Currently, ~50% of newborns are covered under Medicaid, an entirely unsustainable number.

The mandatory coverage of birth control and the equal cost of insurance for men and women support some ideas I believe in. First, men and women are equally complicit in the conception of a child. Second, unplanned pregnancies are a society's burden, not just a family burden. Just as I support everyone chipping in to educate your brat so that I don't have to deal with as many tards like r00t, I support everyone chipping in to keep children who won't be properly raised from being conceived. The people who would take birth control if its given to them but can't be burdened to buy it are the last people we want having children.

The employer mandate and the medical device tax should be removed from the law, the companies responsible for the website should be held financially liable and possibly criminally charged, and more efforts should be made to strengthen insurers bargaining power with hospitals, pharma companies, and medical device companies, as is seen in single-payer systems. But its a good start.

If Republicans want to prove its a bad system, they should work with democrats to make it as good as possible, rather than try to undermine it. Otherwise, they'll never be able to convincingly argue that its hopeless.

the only non-whiny or paranoid post in the thread.

[r00t]

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[Nuggie]

Better get ready. For the end is near friends.

[r00t]

Single payer is a bad idea and goes against every market principle. Besides, the government can't even make a website (welcome to 1999), and you want them to run the entire fucking health care system lol.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by r00t [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Single payer is a bad idea and goes against every market principle. Besides, the government can't even make a website (welcome to 1999), and you want them to run the entire fucking health care system lol.

just stop, this is worse than hbb.

[r00t]

The single payer system would become a free for all frenzy that would have to eventually ration care. Canada's system proves this with the waiting lists to see a doctor. Costs would not be decreased at all, in fact they would have to be driven up to save the program from bankruptcy. Compensation for young doctors would also have to decrease, thus causing quality of care and experts to decrease as well. Medical decisions would be taken away from patients and doctors and placed into the hands of the government trying to save money. Death panels for people about to die anyway would be a no brainer.

Countries such as Canada, UK, and Sweden are actively moving away from their single payer systems for these very reasons.

[GradnerLives]

Originally Posted by r00t [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The single payer system would become a free for all frenzy that would have to eventually ration care. Canada's system proves this with the waiting lists to see a doctor. Costs would not be decreased at all, in fact they would have to be driven up to save the program from bankruptcy. Compensation for young doctors would also have to decrease, thus causing quality of care and experts to decrease as well. Medical decisions would be taken away from patients and doctors and placed into the hands of the government trying to save money. Death panels for people about to die anyway would be a no brainer.

Countries such as Canada, UK, and Sweden are actively moving away from their single payer systems for these very reasons.

I live in Canada, and have never had to wait more than 1 day for a doctor's appointment (never needed same day but I'm sure I could find someone) and 2 hours in an ER (most extreme example and I had a minor cut on my eye so I was de-prioritized since people needed actual immediate help. In every other case it's been less than an hour). My pediatric heart surgeon was one of the top 5 in north america and I had a hernia closed up within a week of diagnosis.

My medications are heavily subsidized to the point of insignificance, I've never spent anything on actual procedures/hospital stays and I pay less in taxes than the comparable bracket south of the border.

Stop using us as some "Socialist Deathcamp" example and look at the numbers. You basically live in Sudan compared to me. Provide statistics that prove otherwise.

[Langrisserx]

Originally Posted by GradnerLives [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I live in Canada, and have never had to wait more than 1 day for a doctor's appointment (never needed same day but I'm sure I could find someone) and 2 hours in an ER (most extreme example and I had a minor cut on my eye so I was de-prioritized since people needed actual immediate help. In every other case it's been less than an hour). My pediatric heart surgeon was one of the top 5 in north america and I had a hernia closed up within a week of diagnosis.

My medications are heavily subsidized to the point of insignificance, I've never spent anything on actual procedures/hospital stays and I pay less in taxes than the comparable bracket south of the border.

Stop using us as some "Socialist Deathcamp" example and look at the numbers. You basically live in Sudan compared to me. Provide statistics that prove otherwise.

haha gradner slaying noobs left and right

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by GradnerLives [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I live in Canada, and have never had to wait more than 1 day for a doctor's appointment (never needed same day but I'm sure I could find someone) and 2 hours in an ER (most extreme example and I had a minor cut on my eye so I was de-prioritized since people needed actual immediate help. In every other case it's been less than an hour). My pediatric heart surgeon was one of the top 5 in north america and I had a hernia closed up within a week of diagnosis.

My medications are heavily subsidized to the point of insignificance, I've never spent anything on actual procedures/hospital stays and I pay less in taxes than the comparable bracket south of the border.

Stop using us as some "Socialist Deathcamp" example and look at the numbers. You basically live in Sudan compared to me. Provide statistics that prove otherwise.

I appreciate hearing your experience with the healthcare system up there. I've been trying to keep an open mind about the changes going on here in the states, although I'm still aprehensive because there are things about Obamacare that concern me. But for now all we can do is see what happens.

Also, lol @ highlighted quote above. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[r00t]

Originally Posted by GradnerLives [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I live in Canada, and have never had to wait more than 1 day for a doctor's appointment (never needed same day but I'm sure I could find someone) and 2 hours in an ER (most extreme example and I had a minor cut on my eye so I was de-prioritized since people needed actual immediate help. In every other case it's been less than an hour). My pediatric heart surgeon was one of the top 5 in north america and I had a hernia closed up within a week of diagnosis.

My medications are heavily subsidized to the point of insignificance, I've never spent anything on actual procedures/hospital stays and I pay less in taxes than the comparable bracket south of the border.

Stop using us as some "Socialist Deathcamp" example and look at the numbers. You basically live in Sudan compared to me. Provide statistics that prove otherwise.

Don't try to bullshit a bullshitter.

The median wait time in Canada to see a special physician is a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting fewer than 90 days.[55]

Dr. Brian Day was once quoted as saying "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two-to-three years."[58]