let's get real about item loot

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'll also care more about making sworn enemies who will drop whatever it is, no matter what they are doing, to come after you in an item loot scenario too, trust me on that.

When red opened, the River Vale / Freeport area was a total shit show. Not that I dislike that kind of thing, but you have to realize, there was no fear in attacking anyone or making an enemy. Here, you will care a lot more about pissing everyone off when the lynch mob comes for your notorious ass.

I PvPed wiz/enc in the early days with Kerrygetz and let me tell you, there was no fucking around to be hard for us in highkeep when the alarms were sounded. We had to pick our fights because of our reputation.

There's more factors in play than "lose a cloak of flames and quit" with item loot.

It changes the entire community and really keeps the bad apples accountable for their actions. You can only be a serious PK if you are really good and play careful at all times when you are logged in. I agree with everything you said here.

As far as everyone wanting things easy mode, I haven't really seen much debate about it either way on Red. I'm sure Blue has their opinions on things like the compass but PvP alone seems to overshadow any debate on Red.

[Beastro]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'll also care more about making sworn enemies who will drop whatever it is, no matter what they are doing, to come after you in an item loot scenario too, trust me on that.

When red opened, the River Vale / Freeport area was a total shit show. Not that I dislike that kind of thing, but you have to realize, there was no fear in attacking anyone or making an enemy. Here, you will care a lot more about pissing everyone off when the lynch mob comes for your notorious ass.

I PvPed wiz/enc in the early days with Kerrygetz and let me tell you, there was no fucking around to be hard for us in highkeep when the alarms were sounded. We had to pick our fights because of our reputation.

There's more factors in play than "lose a cloak of flames and quit" with item loot.

This is why I loved playing on RZ even if I was terrible at PvP and avoided it. Having item loot around the the atmosphere it creates is fun to be in, even if you're really into it yourself.

Better to be a bluebie on an RZ server than be on a PvP server full of blubies.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Beastro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Better to be a bluebie on an RZ server than be on a PvP server full of blubies.

[Runya]

Originally Posted by Beastro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why I loved playing on RZ even if I was terrible at PvP and avoided it. Having item loot around the the atmosphere it creates is fun to be in, even if you're really into it yourself.

Better to be a bluebie on an RZ server than be on a PvP server full of blubies.

Immersion level was high when item loot was a possibility.......Never was able to get immersed in another server/game since....The feeling of leaning over someone's corpse and looting then gating infront of his pals wondering if you were about to get stunned yourself!~priceless.This type of ruleset i can bring in 10+ new players.Should really get a T99 forum section going

[HippoNipple]

With that said some of these suggestions on item loot make me sick. Durability, random loot, making everything no drop or bind on equip, terrible... just terrible.

There are a lot of people that will join teams99 because they are just bored to death of red99. It isn't just becasue of Nihilum, it has been around too long with nothing new. Servers get old. If teams opens up and is too close to red99 it will be a shame. There is a lot of hard work from devs going into this and the new server has to have its own identity. Any unclassic mechanics thrown in to water down the looting system would be a shame.

The two big differences for this server are going to be teams and item loot. It is very important both of these are done right and now watered down.

[Vexenu]

Again we have old RZ people not understanding the different dynamic between FFA and Teams.

Item loot adds a lot more to an FFA server than it does to Teams. There is no reputation to worry about on a Teams server. There is no one with a "PK rep" who has a lot of sworn enemies from killing people. On Teams, everyone who isn't on your team is automatically your sworn enemy and will attack you on sight. The only rep that matters on a Teams server who is is dangerous/skilled and who is not.

Teams server will thrive or fail based on two factors alone: 1) Server population and 2) Team balance.

Item loot does nothing to help either of these things, and a lot to hurt both. Item loot means fewer players will try the server, and a higher number of those that do will be rage quitting when they lose items. Item loot also means the winning team will continue to get progressively stronger while the loser gets weaker.

I have yet to see a compelling argument for item loot that was not transparently an effort by the poster to relive their nostalgia for RZ and various item loot emus, all of which had abysmally low pops.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again we have old RZ people not understanding the different dynamic between FFA and Teams.

Item loot adds a lot more to an FFA server than it does to Teams. There is no reputation to worry about on a Teams server. There is no one with a "PK rep" who has a lot of sworn enemies from killing people. On Teams, everyone who isn't on your team is automatically your sworn enemy and will attack you on sight. The only rep that matters on a Teams server who is is dangerous/skilled and who is not.

Teams server will thrive or fail based on two factors alone: 1) Server population and 2) Team balance.

Item loot does nothing to help either of these things, and a lot to hurt both. Item loot means fewer players will try the server, and a higher number of those that do will be rage quitting when they lose items. Item loot also means the winning team will continue to get progressively stronger while the loser gets weaker.

I have yet to see a compelling argument for item loot that was not transparently an effort by the poster to relive their nostalgia for RZ and various item loot emus, all of which had abysmally low pops.

red99 has had the misfortune of having two pretty bad pvp rule systems. One hurt the player that died and didn't reward the victor. The current one does nothing. The only reason to PvP on the current server is to contest raids but that has been avoided by one zerg controlling PvE uncontested.

The fun in pvp from 1-51 with this system has been limited and cheapened. The community has ruined pvp from 52-60 on their own but it is hard to say any community with this population wouldn't be similar. It is natural instinct to do what you can to further your character, and not devote your time as a martyr.

Teams and item loot is an attempt to fix both of those problems. We have tried to allow the community to make the current system fun and it has failed for a lot of us. I'm ready for some server rules that don't leave it up to the community - loot and teams.

[Vexenu]

There is an inherent need to PvP with a Teams ruleset, something that isn't true with FFA rules. This is why item loot makes more sense with FFA - it gives you a reason to kill players.

No item loot + FFA = Killing people for no benefit, simply to kill them. Degenerates to pure griefing over time, especially for sub-50 PvP.

Item loot + FFA = Killing people for potential gain, with a risk/reward dynamic. Creates a culture of brigands/PKs and anti-PKs. A fun ruleset given a large enough population to sustain it.

No item loot + Teams = Killing your enemies on sight, otherwise they will kill you. Fighting for survival and zone control.

Item loot + Teams = Same as above, except the winning team gets stronger over time and the loser gets weaker. Encourages imbalance.

Item loot simply adds nothing desirable to the Teams ruleset. It's an FFA PvP rule that doesn't belong on a Teams server. Further, there doesn't currently exist a large enough demand for an item loot server to sustain a reasonably high population on one. This isn't 1999-2000 where we have half a million EQ players to draw from for RZ, enabling it to sustain itself. We've got a few thousand players at best, the vast majority of whom aren't inclined to PvP at all, much less item loot.

In the end the argument is as simple as it is irrefutable: Teams needs population more than anything else. Item loot significantly reduces population. Therefore, item loot is a bad idea for Teams.

[Kastro]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is an inherent need to PvP with a Teams ruleset, something that isn't true with FFA rules. This is why item loot makes more sense with FFA - it gives you a reason to kill players.

No item loot + FFA = Killing people for no benefit, simply to kill them. Degenerates to pure griefing over time, especially for sub-50 PvP.

Item loot + FFA = Killing people for potential gain, with a risk/reward dynamic. Creates a culture of brigands/PKs and anti-PKs. A fun ruleset given a large enough population to sustain it.

No item loot + Teams = Killing your enemies on sight, otherwise they will kill you. Fighting for survival and zone control.

Item loot + Teams = Same as above, except the winning team gets stronger over time and the loser gets weaker. Encourages imbalance.

Item loot simply adds nothing desirable to the Teams ruleset. It's an FFA PvP rule that doesn't belong on a Teams server. Further, there doesn't currently exist a large enough demand for an item loot server to sustain a reasonably high population on one. This isn't 1999-2000 where we have half a million EQ players to draw from for RZ, enabling it to sustain itself. We've got a few thousand players at best, the vast majority of whom aren't inclined to PvP at all, much less item loot.

In the end the argument is as simple as it is irrefutable: Teams needs population more than anything else. Item loot significantly reduces population. Therefore, item loot is a bad idea for Teams.

That is where I believe you may be misinformed....

X Teaming Did not start on Tallon Zek or Vallon Zek until AFTER item loot was removed...

On VZTZ Heresy did not form a guild with the top TZT group untill AFTER Item loot was removed... On VZTZ most planar was tradable... so it was NOT a race to no drop...

Bring in Firona Vie Rules for loot + Item loot will defeat the Zerg Syndrome, and the X team syndrome... because it will make it impossible to keep those alliances together... If HPT, or Xantille could Gank another Nihlium Members let say... Fungi Tunic... And that member had just pissed them off... They probably would... and the working together bit would end...

[dogbarf]

Thats why this server needs a FFA team to go with the item loot.


Red99 got a shit ruleset thanks to the same people crying about item loot right now. The super vocal crybabies that do nothing but post on the forums and think eq pvp is based on skill and that pointless pvp for the sake of pvp is good for the community.