Hard Coded Vs Soft Coded Teams Discussion

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by SamwiseRed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why are you so quick to dismiss sz ruleset? the community clearly wants 3 teams. is it a bust because you say so? who is gonna decide the ruleset, the gms? nilbog? community vote? I like you but i dont like your tone when it comes to this teams server. why should your word weigh heavier than mine when it comes to a new server. if i didnt think it was the best option for the new server i wouldnt recommmend it. im not pushing SZ for nostalgia purposes. i truly think its the best way to go about it.

Because the SZ ruleset doesn't promote pvp, it promotes grief. Because the SZ server had the smallest population of any of the EQ servers. because most of the people that switched from red to blue did so because of the community on red.

i agree with you that 3 hard coded teams is the best. i just don't agree with the training, or the complete lack of PNP, or the no lvl limit PvP. none of those things promote a healthy community/population.

the ruleset will be decided by the staff. And just as we always do, we will consider player suggestions/feedback.

as far as how much weight "my word" has, who knows. i'm simply disagreeing with you on this subject, albeit very, very adamantly, because i wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

but since you are being serious, i apologize for my previous trollish replies to your Pro-SZ rhetoric. if you make good arguments, the sky is the limit

<3

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because the SZ ruleset doesn't promote pvp, it promotes grief. Because the SZ server had the smallest population of any of the EQ servers. because most of the people that switched from red to blue did so because of the community on red.

i agree with you that 3 hard coded teams is the best. i just don't agree with the training, or the complete lack of PNP, or the no lvl limit PvP. none of those things promote a healthy community/population.

the ruleset will be decided by the staff. And just as we always do, we will consider player suggestions/feedback.

as far as how much weight "my word" has, who knows. i'm simply disagreeing with you on this subject, albeit very, very adamantly, because i wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

but since you are being serious, i apologize for my previous trollish replies to your Pro-SZ rhetoric. if you make good arguments, the sky is the limit

<3

I think in retrospect, a lot of the "no play nice" stuff was laziness by the live team staff. Clearly we have a chance to do better by not being restricted to mirroring a classic ruleset.

I'm as big a supporter of SZ as you'll find, having played there for the majority of my EQ Live career (and RZ before that). But the ability to train anyone, anywhere is how raid level zone control was established. That's garbage. Obviously training isn't a good option in a zone with a bunch of level 30-40 mobs, but in raid zones where mobs hurt it's how it was done. Speedd single-handedly kept the rest of the server out of zones for months.

Another lapse in judgement that I feel was due to laziness by the live dev team was no PVP level range. It's just easier to say anyone can kill anyone, any time then dealing with things like out of range healers in an elegant way. It doesn't have to be complicated, maybe there is an engagement timer when you cast a spell/melee on someone or are hit by a spell/melee from someone and if anyone casts a beneficial spell on a player actively engaged they are flagged for combat from any level range. Almost how UO did the red/blue flags.

I think we need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater here, there are certainly some changes to the SZ ruleset that need to be made but there is a lot to like as well.

I think this poll question is a step in the right direction of asking the right questions. Maybe next we should determine exactly how many teams people want? Are 2 teams the right amount with this server population? 3? 4? Getting into details of class/race/deity restrictions is probably a step beyond where we should be right now. Let's start at the base and work our way up.

[Fawqueue]

Originally Posted by SamwiseRed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why are you so quick to dismiss sz ruleset? the community clearly wants 3 teams. is it a bust because you say so? who is gonna decide the ruleset, the gms? nilbog? community vote? I like you but i dont like your tone when it comes to this teams server. why should your word weigh heavier than mine when it comes to a new server. if i didnt think it was the best option for the new server i wouldnt recommmend it. im not pushing SZ for nostalgia purposes. i truly think its the best way to go about it.

the SZ ruleset wasnt duck-taped together by a few gms overnight. verant thought long and hard about it. just please god, no more custom shit.

While I don't share Sam's obvious frustration, I do agree with the sentiment. Although I think we probably need another GM poll about which team structures appeal to everyone so we stop derailing the hard-coded vs soft-coded topic here.

I am happy to see that Sirken and I agree on the hard-coding though. Lets call it a lock and move on to the next subject!

[Retti_]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Samwise all "SZ or bust"








Bust inc









im not trying to be a dick, but SZ really was (statistically) the absolute worst server (red or blue) in the history or EverQuest. the SZ community/mentality is the #1 reason people people dont stay (ie: quit) on Red99. why on earth would we try to emulate such a horrible server?

Lol @ people asking for no pvp lvl range and training

[Lowlife]

Originally Posted by Retti_ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol @ people asking for no pvp lvl range and training

Exactly, and somehow that will translate into 300 people in Nek and in Crushbone like on live.

delusional.

[Supreme]

If we allow teams then all class/race combos should be available.

I want my Ogre Magi damnit!

[Rec]

More new people will be quiting from twinked lower level characters griefing crushbone than from lvl 50s griefing crushbone. SZ rules actually allows these twinks to be attacked and cleared out. The alternative of hoping someone is in the appropriate level range and decently geared to be online and around is more stupidity that shouldn't exist in 2013.

[Knawga]

im a big fan of rallos and low level pvp etc and i never found the twinks to be a problem u had people who griefed with low level twinks and took ur cloth armor etc but once u got past the 4 lvl range of them it was over so i see ur point rec but it will be resolved by a day or 2 of time as to where a twink on SZ could farm u until u was 15 levels higher in different zones and when u got to high they would swap to a char 15 levels higher than you or even more or just initally start on a lvl 50 toon killing level 1's like they used to in akanon and they made a game out of it and would literally have 50 to 100 level 50's going around akanon killing lowbies for hours and i think hard coding and a good level range would eliminate all the issue's of ur post also i dont see why people are alrdy complainign about a server merge thats over a year away i can see people in nilly because they have toons they been farming kunark with forever with and have max vp gear etc but then wut do u do pvp isnt really rewarding on red99 u dont get anything from it no pvp points to buy raid gear with or beable to loot they raid gear so i think teams will help alot with the pvp side of things and as far as breaking guilds up i like sirkens point of it will last maybe a month of people crying like girls but if u want to stay together as a guild im pritty sure that it wouldnt be hard to swap from a barbarian warrior to a ogre or troll or visa versa

[Rec]

I am still confident something that is 75% or greater of the SZ ruleset would win any community vote. I don't want 100% SZ, even though I liked SZ there are still things we can improve. If the new server doesn't have an SZ"esque" ruleset it won't be community's decision that's for certain.

[Smedy]

voted hard coded cause everyone else did, just want new server pals!