First to Engage: Exploiting the mechanic?

[contemptor]

Originally Posted by uygi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would be really nice to think that with every damn target in Velious up at once, the server's raiding population would be split up enough to mitigate some of this. But yeah... you're probably right. I'd expect BDA, Taken, FE, IB, TMO and Divinity to ALL be at their highest raid attendance in server history that night.

But then again... just imagine if we could all come together and the server first AoW kill was a big huge group effort. That would be one fuck of a CCH.

Can't see it happening, but would be fun.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys have killed 41% hasted DW'n Hoshkar - you've already killed a stronger version of Zlexak which is one of the harder NToV dragons. Not to mention you did so while under duress of trains.



I posted the math on the matter before, but AoW boils down to one thing - can you keep up a defensive warrior for a single round of his melee? If you can keep up a tank, it doesn't matter how hard the NPC is perceived - a 2-2.5 second CHeal rot ensures that they will never get to deal more than 1 round of damage before the tank is fully healed.

AoW has a DB of 254 and a DI of 45. He also flurries.

Max hit with defensive = 254 + 10*45 = 704.
Bash/Kick damage is more or less the DB.

Max round = 704*8 + 254*2 = 5632 + 508 = 6140.

A few things with this. 1) It's possible to take a Riposte. 2) It's very rare for an NPC to connect every hit. 3) Even with high ATK, the odds of distribution of 8 consecutive Max DI are very low. 4) He's not always gonna flurry 4 extra attacks and a kick/bash.

Top end Kunark warriors are 5500 HP. With sidegrades to drop a lot of AC for HP, you can reach 5625 or so in just Kunark gear. Velious raid buffs (PoTG + Divine Strength + Focus of Spirit) add about 300 HP. Unlike other expansions, Velious 60 spells are incredibly common.

So, assuming absolutely no gear upgrades, you're looking at a 5925 HP warrior. Now, to even get to AoW, you'll be killing Vindi and Statue. You'll likely end up with a Vindi/Statue BP or Vindi Boots unless you are incredibly unlucky (common drops). If you aren't a retarded guild, your main targets will be Zland/Kland/Sont/LtK/Yelinak.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there to be 6k+ HP warriors within 24 hours of Velious launch. This is enough HP to realistically tank AoW for the duration defensive.

Now, I always get the DPS argument - our DPS don't have primal. So fucking what. DPS gains can more than be made up for by more players. Wu's Fists (assuming they don't get nerfed) are better than most monk weaponry. Ragebringer/RSS works great. Kael has a ton of great DPS pets.

How about the cleric mana argument? Well, if you ever raided Velious, you'll know that cleric gear didn't mean dick until the Luclin patch that nerfed mod rods. Velious is a buncha clerics starring at a wall, eating mod rods, counting to 3, and clicking a button.

The only 2 things that should prevent AoW from dying within 24 hours are 1) The Zone crashing. 2) A small guild blowing the spawn while everyone else is out getting ST keys.

^^ This guy knows what sup. VP was farmed for a year now. TMO is going into Velious with an exponentially better geared force than ever occurred on live. Not to mention the hoards of nice rechargeable items we will be using for aggro/healing/dps etc. AoW might not last the first night. I'd give him a week though. Much of ST will be dead within 2 weeks.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys have killed 41% hasted DW'n Hoshkar - you've already killed a stronger version of Zlexak which is one of the harder NToV dragons. Not to mention you did so while under duress of trains.



I posted the math on the matter before, but AoW boils down to one thing - can you keep up a defensive warrior for a single round of his melee? If you can keep up a tank, it doesn't matter how hard the NPC is perceived - a 2-2.5 second CHeal rot ensures that they will never get to deal more than 1 round of damage before the tank is fully healed.

AoW has a DB of 254 and a DI of 45. He also flurries.

Max hit with defensive = 254 + 10*45 = 704.
Bash/Kick damage is more or less the DB.

Max round = 704*8 + 254*2 = 5632 + 508 = 6140.

A few things with this. 1) It's possible to take a Riposte. 2) It's very rare for an NPC to connect every hit. 3) Even with high ATK, the odds of distribution of 8 consecutive Max DI are very low. 4) He's not always gonna flurry 4 extra attacks and a kick/bash.

Top end Kunark warriors are 5500 HP. With sidegrades to drop a lot of AC for HP, you can reach 5625 or so in just Kunark gear. Velious raid buffs (PoTG + Divine Strength + Focus of Spirit) add about 300 HP. Unlike other expansions, Velious 60 spells are incredibly common.

So, assuming absolutely no gear upgrades, you're looking at a 5925 HP warrior. Now, to even get to AoW, you'll be killing Vindi and Statue. You'll likely end up with a Vindi/Statue BP or Vindi Boots unless you are incredibly unlucky (common drops). If you aren't a retarded guild, your main targets will be Zland/Kland/Sont/LtK/Yelinak.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there to be 6k+ HP warriors within 24 hours of Velious launch. This is enough HP to realistically tank AoW for the duration defensive.

Now, I always get the DPS argument - our DPS don't have primal. So fucking what. DPS gains can more than be made up for by more players. Wu's Fists (assuming they don't get nerfed) are better than most monk weaponry. Ragebringer/RSS works great. Kael has a ton of great DPS pets.

How about the cleric mana argument? Well, if you ever raided Velious, you'll know that cleric gear didn't mean dick until the Luclin patch that nerfed mod rods. Velious is a buncha clerics starring at a wall, eating mod rods, counting to 3, and clicking a button.

The only 2 things that should prevent AoW from dying within 24 hours are 1) The Zone crashing. 2) A small guild blowing the spawn while everyone else is out getting ST keys.

or giant charming working

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

or giant charming working

I didn't want to mention this and I hope its not in game at release... It may be classic... but its dumb !

[Tanthallas]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys have killed 41% hasted DW'n Hoshkar - you've already killed a stronger version of Zlexak which is one of the harder NToV dragons. Not to mention you did so while under duress of trains.

This is the single most retarded argument I have heard in regards to velious. The only reason that other guilds have not killed hoshkar is because of training; when VP was on rotation, IB had killed Hoshkar consistently with fewer people.

Hoshkar - or any 32k mob which you can just melt down with over 30 people - is not a standard in any way for velious content.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the single most retarded argument I have heard in regards to velious. The only reason that other guilds have not killed hoshkar is because of training; when VP was on rotation, IB had killed Hoshkar consistently with fewer people.

Hoshkar - or any 32k mob which you can just melt down with over 30 people - is not a standard in any way for velious content.

spam jboots

[Jingleson]

I heard TMO lost a dragon to another guild tonight. EC chat exploded earlier.

[quido]

heaven forbid

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Jingleson [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I heard TMO lost a dragon to another guild tonight. EC chat exploded earlier.

TMO obviously dying guild.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Tanthallas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the single most retarded argument I have heard in regards to velious. The only reason that other guilds have not killed hoshkar is because of training; when VP was on rotation, IB had killed Hoshkar consistently with fewer people.

Hoshkar - or any 32k mob which you can just melt down with over 30 people - is not a standard in any way for velious content.

TMO has killed Hoshkar with less than IB confirmed. Also, under train pressure [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])))